18"/21" Folded horns
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Category: Plans
Forum Name: New Projects Forum
Forum Description: Forum for new speakerplans projects, in memory of Tony Wilkes, 1953 - 2014
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=97327
Printed Date: 05 December 2023 at 9:23am
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Topic: 18"/21" Folded horns
Posted By: levyte357-
Subject: 18"/21" Folded horns
Date Posted: 15 December 2016 at 6:02pm
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Apart from from WSX, are there any DIY 18"/21" designs out there, that can achieve 45hz in pairs (Without blowing drivers)? I'm not talking about ultra optimistic sims, of stacks 12x cabs.  Seems strange Martin accomplished this approx 2x decades ago, yet for all I hear about Invaders/SBH, I don't hear about them dropping as low, as WSX in reality. ------------- Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing. |
Replies:
Posted By: BASSHORSE
Date Posted: 15 December 2016 at 7:45pm
my home made quakes if that counts  |
Posted By: luton_soundman
Date Posted: 15 December 2016 at 8:32pm
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Question...if the general rule is the smaller the speaker the more suited to higher frequencies and the bigger the speaker the more suited to low frequencies...so if that is the case why do we design/build load 21" drivers into boxes that do not play to the speakers strengths? Or isit a case of ignoring its strengths and just focusing on maybe moving more air because its bigger? This is a genuine question and post i am not having a go or raining on anyones parade as who is anyone to tell someone how to build their sound. Respect. ------------- Sound Hire/Sales new/used equipment. |
Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 15 December 2016 at 9:15pm
What can these do realistically in pairs/4s? ------------- Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing. |
BASSHORSE wrote:Posted By: BASSHORSE
Date Posted: 16 December 2016 at 10:31am
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to luton,,thats a technical question & i'll leave that to the others,.to lev,.i aint got no measuring equipment but to my ears they drop low low,.spec sheet says 35 in 4s,.but i aint surprized they drop like they do,the box is huge 4ft tall over 3 foot deep,.them the best folded bass horns ive heard,.aint heard that many but these sound sweet,.got the punch with the weight behind it,,smooth aswell,.they just sound profesh,.they dont roll like scoops,but scops aint got the pressure these punch out,. .top boxs imo |
Posted By: corell
Date Posted: 16 December 2016 at 10:44am
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SBHs drop about 10Hz lower than WSX. WSX is more efficient on the other side and requires less boxes in a stack to work as a proper horn. The EAW Big Bertha could be what you are looking for?! Personally i prefer 15" FLH over 18" as the lower cutoff is determined by the horn and the stack size but not the chassis size. If you take the exactly same horn with lets say ~ 1m x 0.6m mouth area and put either a suited 21", a 18" or a 15" into it, the response curve will be about the same! Only thing that will change is the dispersion at a given input voltage. But a proper horn stack wont exceed ~10mm of xmax anyways, even if driven with 1500w or the likes, so with the same power handling on all 3 chassis sizes, you end up with (nearly) no difference in max SPL. That said, this is the theory. In the real world, where you drive your chassis beyond xmax because compression in bass range is considered as "heavy" and you dont build big enough stacks (like 2 bins per side), the 21" will most likely be measured with a fe extra dB max SPL compared to the 15". But not anywhere as much as it would be in a ported enclosure! |
Posted By: paulus
Date Posted: 16 December 2016 at 11:05am
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i heard a stack of quakes once, 8 in one block in 2x4s with mouths together, ...........it moved my guts, there is a technical answer for you
------------- TRENDSETTER SOUND SYSTEM |
Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 16 December 2016 at 2:26pm
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Thanks for feedback so far. Reason I asked about 2x per stack, is because I wanted a realistic comparison with Scoops, without saying it. Premium build Scoop, with premium high BL driver, will easily do 40hz in pairs, and cover 500 ppl, with 2x stacks of 2x, given right sub amp, processing. Pairs is not a typical application for folded horns, but is there an 18" folded horn, that can outperform Scoops, in this configuration, over 40-80hz? ------------- Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing. |
Posted By: +/-3dB
Date Posted: 16 December 2016 at 2:54pm
| http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/185588-keystone-sub-using-18-15-12-inch-speakers.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/185588-keystone-sub-using-18-15-12-inch-speakers.html |
Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 16 December 2016 at 2:59pm
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In same venue, have heard stack of 4x V18-1000 loaded Looneys, as with 2x other Scoop sounds. Would say 55hz up the Looneys had it, but 38-50hz was severely lacking, & noticable, actually detracting from enjoyment of the music. Will SBH really do better than this? ------------- Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing. |
Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 16 December 2016 at 6:21pm
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Labsubs ------------- Marjan Milosevic MM-Acoustics www.mm-acoustics.com https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713 |
Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 16 December 2016 at 10:44pm
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the keystones are supposed to be very very nice, planning on knocking one up soon.. ------------- https://www.elements-audio.com |
Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 16 December 2016 at 11:18pm
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Those are not FLH as he asked. ------------- Marjan Milosevic MM-Acoustics www.mm-acoustics.com https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713 |
Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 17 December 2016 at 1:10am
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Has anyone built Labsub 1x18 yet? ------------- Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing. |
Posted By: corell
Date Posted: 17 December 2016 at 1:10am
Simple answer: No, unless the pair of FLH is as big as 4 WSX (for example). You can push the 1/4 wavelength resonance at the low end of the frequency response with some tricks, but there is just no way a FLH will be as loud as a Scoop of äquivalent size in the octave above that without having the required mouth area. For 40Hz, this required mouth area is about 2,5m²-2,8m². So a 2 vs 2 flh vs scoop with a 40hz layout for both will have these results: 40-45Hz : ~equal output 45-75Hz : scoop is louder /more efficient 75Hz-up: flh is louder /more efficient You should be looking at a mid-high q bandpass 6.order for the 40-80hz passband as alternatives to scoops. The Lab-Sub is not a good solution for a 2 a-side 40Hz setup imo. They are designed for stacks of 6 (so 12 x 12" !) and drop below 30Hz then. |
Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 17 December 2016 at 6:46am
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If the request is to get al much sub 40hz from a given footprint, then making reflex subs with premium 18s is the way to go. Sure it will take double the power, but hey, no free lunch. ------------- Marjan Milosevic MM-Acoustics www.mm-acoustics.com https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713 |
Posted By: +/-3dB
Date Posted: 17 December 2016 at 8:35am
He said folded horn, not front loaded horn. A TH got folds and is a horn 
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Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 17 December 2016 at 9:08am
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Then TH will definitely outrun any scoop in the 30-50hz regin, but scoops will be louder above 50hz. Also the sound will be much different because TH horns are lot cleaner sounding then scoops. But, if the aim is more spl from a given foot print, then reflex wins. My double 18s are pissing all over TH-118 in both spl and low end extention. But sure, they need double the power and a re just slightly bigger. ------------- Marjan Milosevic MM-Acoustics www.mm-acoustics.com https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713 |
Posted By: Mark James
Date Posted: 17 December 2016 at 3:39pm
you mean amanos lab 18?  ------------- me so horny me love you long throw horn loaded for her pleasure |
Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 17 December 2016 at 4:11pm
Guess I do. ------------- Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing. |
Posted By: Mark James
Date Posted: 17 December 2016 at 4:33pm
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we got a solitary one mdf prototype sitting in the shed waiting till i ever have the cash to build a 6 stack out of them and load em up lol did give it a try with a v18-1000b from a void cab and it sounded pretty good for the 2/3 minutes we had it playing before we got asked rather unpolitely to turn it down lol
prob be ok to 42 or something in pairs i recom 35 or even lower in 4 30 in stacks this jis just an assumption tho
120x120x60cm tho lol but oh i want a 12 stack of them one day just for a laugh ------------- me so horny me love you long throw horn loaded for her pleasure |
Posted By: BASSHORSE
Date Posted: 17 December 2016 at 7:55pm
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another point for the quakes,.they are super long throw,.had car shakin from bass from miles away,.no joke,.church windows rattling,.i put one box in my garden for a garden party & the shop is way way up the street & shop owner sed his shop was rattling,i was quite surprized it traveled that far but they do,.i wish ther was more ov these on the circuit to have a shoot out with,.i would put 4 against 4 ov any scoop no worries at all,. |
Posted By: BASSHORSE
Date Posted: 17 December 2016 at 7:56pm
well 800watt scoops anyway  |
Posted By: luton_soundman
Date Posted: 17 December 2016 at 9:08pm
Think ken uses the quakes also. Especially on carnival float. Might have to try some out  ------------- Sound Hire/Sales new/used equipment. |
Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 17 December 2016 at 11:17pm
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Problem is, do Quakes sound better 1/4 mile away, than in the venue !? ------------- Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing. |
Posted By: BASSHORSE
Date Posted: 18 December 2016 at 8:32am
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ther good close up, mid field & far,.flh are designed for that purpose i think so no surprize ther either |
Posted By: BASSHORSE
Date Posted: 18 December 2016 at 9:00am
i took this wen my front room was a workshop ive made sum box's in ther 4 super's,8 replex & other mid top boxs,..but onto the quake,,as you can see by the folds,its a work of art,.no waste spots in ther like sum folded horns,.its basicly an 1850 trumpet,.it just works,.for the record i am a scoop man & aint into the hard bang buff sound of front loaded horns,disco sound as some say,.but these just sound dirty,deep & scoopy all in one box,.hats off to who ever designed um,.
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Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 18 December 2016 at 7:54pm
No they aren't - you are just creating an array with boundary effects. |
Posted By: BASSHORSE
Date Posted: 18 December 2016 at 9:00pm
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wot eva |
Posted By: Dub Specialist Sound
Date Posted: 18 December 2016 at 11:55pm
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wkd basshorse bro, bad man we must link up again man....l ------------- Musical Roots Reggae Vibration is Life! for music is sound...sound is vibration...vibration is energy... and energy begets life. Therein lies my passion!...MUSIC IS LIFE... |
Posted By: Mark James
Date Posted: 20 December 2016 at 1:06am
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PM,d regarding loaning te lab 18 for testing ------------- me so horny me love you long throw horn loaded for her pleasure |
Posted By: Mark James
Date Posted: 20 December 2016 at 1:10am
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Also got 2double 1505c1 seleniums unloaded if you want to audition them lol ------------- me so horny me love you long throw horn loaded for her pleasure |
Posted By: B_Bender
Date Posted: 06 January 2017 at 1:10pm
This guy https://youtu.be/5A0aP2M5i_0?t=332" rel="nofollow - https://youtu.be/5A0aP2M5i_0?t=332 Maybe you should send him a tenner for ripping off his hard work.
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Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 06 January 2017 at 10:03pm
there are 3 quakes, em acoustic quakes  knets (kens double 18 heaverly modded quakes) built by me  and Knets (kens new double 21" quakes) nothing like the 18" ones but again built by me.  Ill have another 8 come april time... they are killer outside, but suffer inside due to such a long horn path. (sub will be in the next town)... the ones I build are in no way like or similar, or based on the em acoustics quake.
------------- https://www.elements-audio.com |
Posted By: luton_soundman
Date Posted: 06 January 2017 at 10:38pm
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How much would a single 21" quake from you be? ------------- Sound Hire/Sales new/used equipment. |
Posted By: BASSHORSE
Date Posted: 07 January 2017 at 8:02am
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& ther was another quake used by a wolverhampton reggae sound in the late 70's 80's,.bojagles,..i had 2 boxs off them as they were going to get destroyed by the council as they was in the dugeon in heath town,.which was goverment run,.ther was 6 front firing w-bins,,& 2 quakes,,wish i had a picture ov them,,they used the red cone cerwin vega in ther wen i saw a blowd one,.i droped a 400 fane in ther with the crinlkly dust cap,..ther nout like bee's,.id say ther were at least 8ft deep,thin,& about 4ft high,.basically a long w-bin design but they dropped low,the punch was super smooth from them. & i used to transport them from mine to me mates house on skateboard ,.them was the first quakes to my knowledge,.. |
Posted By: BASSHORSE
Date Posted: 07 January 2017 at 8:06am
not rippin his work,,just tryin to improve on his design im sure he's got anuff loot by the looks ov him,,how ever,,if he's ever skint in the future i will donate a tenner to him,.i did buy the first quake thow,.650quid with a blown driver,.so he got payed somewere along the line |
Posted By: moyano
Date Posted: 25 January 2017 at 8:52pm
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Posted By: midas
Date Posted: 27 January 2017 at 9:29pm
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What about a 24 flh? ------------- In bass no one can hear you scream! |
Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 27 January 2017 at 10:49pm
It does crack me up watching people justifying theft to themselves. |
Posted By: odc04r
Date Posted: 28 January 2017 at 11:47am
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Copyright infringement != Theft But I am sure you've never torrented a copyrighted file in your life right Kyle? |
Posted By: Mark James
Date Posted: 28 January 2017 at 4:11pm
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i agree but kyles the kind of guy who would only use a low quality downloaded file to see if its worth buying the real deal, make a decision delete the file and then buy or not buy the real thing. i do think that taking a cab apart examining it and playing around with similar designs isnt so bad for personal intelectual reasons is not so bad and im sure he would agree but you do your best to keep the original intelectual property's owner's secrets exactly that secret. I have a bass horn plan im working on myself and id love for one day someone to dissect it and evaluate and attempt to improve it, but ruining my ip rihts id be angry about [as an aside il probably make my design a publicly buildable plan but that is MY decision to make no one elses. kyle has the right to sit on his high horse in my opinion on this particular matter. just my pennys worth edit because that didnt read how i meant it after i posted it but didnt want to hide my original post, not suggesting he would download a file to evaluate it im just saying hed rather buy it if its worth buying
------------- me so horny me love you long throw horn loaded for her pleasure |
Posted By: odc04r
Date Posted: 28 January 2017 at 9:17pm
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If people are building cabs for personal use and not copying for commercial sale, it really doesn't matter a damn imho. |
Posted By: Mark James
Date Posted: 28 January 2017 at 10:56pm
+1 as long as its not for profit ------------- me so horny me love you long throw horn loaded for her pleasure |
Posted By: Joel2002
Date Posted: 07 January 2023 at 7:23pm
| Are the plans available or are you able to build more for a paying customer would be interested if so 🫰 |