New 4 channel amp
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Category: General
Forum Name: Amp Forum
Forum Description: The 'Stopping Jake Fielder moaning constantly' forum description...
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=97472
Printed Date: 18 April 2024 at 7:15pm
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Topic: New 4 channel amp
Posted By: midas
Subject: New 4 channel amp
Date Posted: 08 January 2017 at 7:18pm
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Anyone else noticed Blue Aran listing their own branded 4 channel amps??? ------------- In bass no one can hear you scream! |
Replies:
Posted By: knet94
Date Posted: 08 January 2017 at 8:58pm
| http://www.bluearan.co.uk/index.php?id=JMSQ10&browsemode=manufacturer%20" rel="nofollow - http://www.bluearan.co.uk/index.php?id=JMSQ10&browsemode=manufacturer |
Posted By: Sheggy
Date Posted: 08 January 2017 at 9:26pm
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2R Hmmm. We'll see. S |
Posted By: TMH Music
Date Posted: 08 January 2017 at 11:46pm
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Bloomin' heck!!! 10Kw for under £900?!! Pictures please!! If the specs stack up this could be a game changer. ------------- Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious |
Posted By: Hvedstrup
Date Posted: 09 January 2017 at 8:29am
| Why such a odd voltage gain? 40db? |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 09 January 2017 at 8:49am
| PFC? |
Posted By: U.Viktor
Date Posted: 09 January 2017 at 9:06am
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No detailed specifications sheet, No internal / rear pictures? I smell "China works" inside :-D |
Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 09 January 2017 at 12:17pm
Those specs would make this effectively, more powerful than Inf8MK2. ------------- Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing. |
knet94 wrote:Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 09 January 2017 at 12:53pm
| the biamp one looks pretty useful too. |
Posted By: midas
Date Posted: 09 January 2017 at 1:30pm
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Now, Andy, if you can just add a Q5 to the list. I will have one Q5 and 2 x Q10, thank you...lol. Not a bad little system then, 4 x TMS3's and 8 twin reflex 18's. 1 x Q5 2 x Q10 2 x PKN5002 Then I can stop spending money..... ------------- In bass no one can hear you scream! |
Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 09 January 2017 at 1:39pm
Remember amplifier specs are not Gospel.. Would suspect those supplied, are measured at 1khz, burst.  ------------- Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing. |
Posted By: osse
Date Posted: 09 January 2017 at 2:03pm
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A bit more useful info on the other amp from the same brand. http://www.bluearan.co.uk/index.php?product=JAM_Systems_B8_::_2_x_2500W_-_2_x_1600W_bi-amp&id=JMSB8" rel="nofollow - http://www.bluearan.co.uk/index.php?product=JAM_Systems_B8_::_2_x_2500W_-_2_x_1600W_bi-amp&id=JMSB8 Short term pulse power ratings Even if the 20-30% lower long term claim can handle sub at 2 ohm they are very good |
Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 09 January 2017 at 3:31pm
Not sure how you make that conclusion - it doesn't suggest they can be bridged, and it gives out less wattage at 4r per ch. And yeah, no indication of what process was used to get those ratings. EIAJ? Would say if so… |
Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 09 January 2017 at 3:39pm
Of course. Did say "effectively", but omitted "in theory".. You know I'm a "bit" of an '8 groupie, so thought you might have detected, the invisible "tongue in cheek"..  ------------- Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing. |
Posted By: nickyburnell
Date Posted: 09 January 2017 at 4:16pm
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Same money as used FFA on a lucky eBay day. Seems nice to me. Is it Chinese, or re-badged Chinese, or UK design Chinese or do I sense a bit of Matrix here? ------------- It's everything, not everythink! |
Posted By: rosssss224
Date Posted: 09 January 2017 at 4:20pm
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Same folk as T.amp?
edit: actually doubt it
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Posted By: smitske96
Date Posted: 09 January 2017 at 4:34pm
| Pl audio from Germany has a amplifier that looks exactly the same.. (D10.4) |
Posted By: rosssss224
Date Posted: 09 January 2017 at 4:37pm
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here we go http://pl-audio.de/produkte/endstufen/d-10-4/" rel="nofollow - http://pl-audio.de/produkte/endstufen/d-10-4/
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 09 January 2017 at 4:47pm
| KAM? |
Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 09 January 2017 at 7:40pm
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Why is it important what is it? Either it works, or not. ------------- Marjan Milosevic MM-Acoustics www.mm-acoustics.com https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713 |
Posted By: concept-10
Date Posted: 09 January 2017 at 7:54pm
This
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Posted By: Andy Kos
Date Posted: 09 January 2017 at 8:30pm
Correct, the maximum power is EIAJ burst rating at 1khz (sames as most other class D amplifiers on the market) We're working on getting some more accurate measurements done for continuous at 1khz, and probably also a 40-80 hz test. If Im honest, the 2 ohm power rating is there just because everyone else has them - I dont think I would recommend 2 ohm operation. If we didnt use EIAJ power ratings, and include 2 ohm, they would immediately look inferior to every other amplifier on the market that uses the same ratings. ------------- just a guy with a warehouse and a few speakers... www.bluearan.co.uk |
Posted By: Andy Kos
Date Posted: 09 January 2017 at 8:36pm
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In case of any confusion, there is NO bridge mode. The unit has four separate amp modules inside, each with it's own dedicated PSU, and each module is individually fused. Unfortunately there doesnt appear to be any PFC on these, they are relatively basic amps intended to hit a certain price point. ------------- just a guy with a warehouse and a few speakers... www.bluearan.co.uk |
Posted By: luton_soundman
Date Posted: 09 January 2017 at 8:52pm
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I think the risk of looking inferior should outweigh the risk of publishing 2r specs to show it is 2 ohm stable when you know in yourself you shouldnt do it and wouldnt recommend it. ------------- Sound Hire/Sales new/used equipment. |
Posted By: Andy Kos
Date Posted: 09 January 2017 at 9:05pm
fair point. I wasnt quite ready to 'launch' the product, but it seems people found it before I was ready. I may take the 2 ohm ratings out of the description. At this point, where its a new product, I cant be sure exactly what the long term performance is like on a 2 ohm load - but equally I know that very few people actually manage to give an amp a 2 ohm load, especially on bass frequencies where the impedance of an 8 ohm driver can rise to 30 ohms or more. If you look at the specs though, the power difference between 4 ohm and 8 ohm is nominal - there is little or no benefit from 2 ohm operation. the 'numbers' game is in full effect in the industry though, you might score brownie points by being 110% honest, but when nobody else is, it becomes a tough call. ------------- just a guy with a warehouse and a few speakers... www.bluearan.co.uk |
Posted By: Dutchman
Date Posted: 09 January 2017 at 10:02pm
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Specs listed with THD = 1% hmm... But happy to hear from people who actually used them! ------------- We need more SPL! |
Posted By: Andy Kos
Date Posted: 09 January 2017 at 10:35pm
THD of 1% is basically at clip. ------------- just a guy with a warehouse and a few speakers... www.bluearan.co.uk |
Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 09 January 2017 at 11:03pm
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Would be very honorable, to remove 2 ohm specs, or even better, state 2 ohm not recommended. Also useful, would be burst spec, output power, all channels driven at 4 ohms, 100hz, 500hz, 1khz, 10khz . Would not think many expect to use this for dedicated sub, all channels, but an idea of performance, on kick upwards, would be very useful. £800 for basically 2x mid or kick amps, is jolly good. Any chance of > 1x year warranty ? ------------- Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing. |
Posted By: Andy Kos
Date Posted: 09 January 2017 at 11:12pm
Agreed - this is currently under discussion. The unit will work at 2 ohms, but we have not yet conducted long term testing. Perhaps for now we will remove the 2 ohm specs and/or reword the description.
We have some of this information - but are still collating a full data set, considering sending a unit off for external testing. Whether one or all 4 channels are driven is irrelevant, as each channel has an independent switched mode PSU.
Agreed - we're not plugging this as a sub amp. In fact my main focus is the bi-amp wired option which has two different amp modules inside. This will work for 2-way active mid-highs and monitor wedges, etc
Possibly, maybe, probably. Warranty is often a numbers game, a certain %age of issues is expected. The longer the warranty, the higher the %age of issues. Longer warranty is possible, but would be subject to Ts and Cs and still needs a little thought. The amps have been with us less than a week - we werent actually quite ready for them to be dissected in quite such detail quite so quickly. Hopefully will have all the answers very, very soon. ------------- just a guy with a warehouse and a few speakers... www.bluearan.co.uk |
Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 09 January 2017 at 11:23pm
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well in fairness, they are listed on your site for sale.. so hey have been launched, so yeah, they will be discussed. i think they look useful and good value. nice one. |
Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 09 January 2017 at 11:23pm
Very interesting. This makes it worth holding off on buying used Amps. Any chance of you supplying the 2U version of this? Also are the amps ventilation back to front, or vice versa? ------------- Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing. |
Posted By: Andy Kos
Date Posted: 09 January 2017 at 11:35pm
You are correct - normally if we're not ready we leave the product in hidden/archived mode - in hind sight, we should have probably done that with this product. We often add new products and work on the tech specs/images quietly in the background without anyone noticing. What's happened here is the first test batch have arrived early... and triggered a course of events. ------------- just a guy with a warehouse and a few speakers... www.bluearan.co.uk |
Posted By: osse
Date Posted: 09 January 2017 at 11:36pm
| If you think about sending to external test, maybe send one to abeltronics? Would give a fair judgement |
Posted By: Dutchman
Date Posted: 09 January 2017 at 11:48pm
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To be fair, measuring watts at clip level will inflate the numbers big time. But very smart idea to have speakon plate with phoenix connectors! Really smart!!  It makes life easy. ------------- We need more SPL! |
Posted By: Andy Kos
Date Posted: 09 January 2017 at 11:55pm
Problem is, everyone is doing this. If you don't do something similar, you don't get noticed. I wont mention brands, but you only need to take a quick look at the multitudes of active speakers out there with power ratings of 1000W, 1500W, 2000W, etc when the real power is often less than half, and sometimes as little as a quarter. People are buying these kinds of things all the time, and actually think (for example) that they have a 2000W 12" subwoofer, when we all know they dont. Somewhere in all of this I need to pitch products in such a way as to appeal to a broad range of people, and then in the finer details - give the accurate, specific information that the pro audio market needs to assess the product. ------------- just a guy with a warehouse and a few speakers... www.bluearan.co.uk |
Posted By: GAZ.
Date Posted: 10 January 2017 at 12:29am
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I'd like to test one. Numbers these days can be meaningless. For me if an amp gives the sound I want, at the levels I want,and does so without complaining and can be relied upon in real world situations to not go bang, then it's a good amp. ------------- 100% Earth Moving Bass |
Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 10 January 2017 at 1:26am
| If there's no PFC then I would strongly recommend a proper datasheet or manual for max peak current draw. People popping breakers or taking kit out with a bunch on a small generator will be a nightmare especially given the price bracket and therefore the likely market they'll sell to! |
Posted By: njw
Date Posted: 21 January 2017 at 10:00pm
| Anyone taken the plunge and tried one of these out yet then? Any customer feedback Andy? |
Posted By: Andy Kos
Date Posted: 22 January 2017 at 6:21pm
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We've decided to field test these ourselves to see how they perform, we should have a better idea of performance in around 3-4 weeks time. ------------- just a guy with a warehouse and a few speakers... www.bluearan.co.uk |
Posted By: t.geessounds
Date Posted: 23 January 2017 at 4:23am
    
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Posted By: U.Viktor
Date Posted: 23 January 2017 at 11:23am
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Are you kidding? All these are << 500W modules. Even EIAJ 1KHz 8:32 Burst rating would need lot more capacitors for 2500W, maybe it can deliver that on 10KHz?:-D Would not be surprised to see the cheapish IR's IRS29XX *car-radio* frreoscillating class-D core inside without real output feedback just like most of very low level switching amps! |
Posted By: t.geessounds
Date Posted: 23 January 2017 at 12:12pm
| sorry for so much pic was loading them on my phone an never know they was loading |
Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 23 January 2017 at 12:12pm
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Pascal X-pro1 is 2500W at 4 ohms and have even less capacitors. ;-) ------------- Marjan Milosevic MM-Acoustics www.mm-acoustics.com https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713 |
Posted By: Andy Kos
Date Posted: 23 January 2017 at 12:45pm
We have bench tested these modules, and although we don't quite have the right equipment, we were getting measurements over 2000W pulse into 4 ohms. With a constant load sine wave we were getting somewhere around 1400W. Certainly more than 500W. I'm not claiming these amps are top of the range, they are clearly built to hit a certain price point, but if they deliver what's needed at that price point? then who is complaining? I used to sell truck loads of Behringer amps before the distribution model changed, love em or hate em, they sold well... ------------- just a guy with a warehouse and a few speakers... www.bluearan.co.uk |
Posted By: Shortrope
Date Posted: 23 January 2017 at 1:20pm
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But they're not PKN.... ------------- My Tinnitus is coming along nicely!! |
Posted By: U.Viktor
Date Posted: 23 January 2017 at 2:02pm
Sure It is not PKN, PKN is Hungarian but this is smell *ChinaWORX* :-D Let me find pictures what a real 4 channel amp look inside, which has the power, protections, real cooling, etc.. |
Posted By: Andy Kos
Date Posted: 23 January 2017 at 2:05pm
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There are also 3 different versions of this amp, with three different power ratings, I'm not sure which one is in the picture, but it may not be the highest power one. ------------- just a guy with a warehouse and a few speakers... www.bluearan.co.uk |
Posted By: mini-mad
Date Posted: 23 January 2017 at 4:55pm
viktor... you're getting boring now "I'll show you a REAL amp...." ffs ------------- If it sounds like a gorilla is trying to escape, turn it down. |
Posted By: Andy Kos
Date Posted: 23 January 2017 at 5:05pm
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Did you not know these are in fact fake amplifiers and not real amplifiers? Designed using alternative reality alternative facts as per current standards. ------------- just a guy with a warehouse and a few speakers... www.bluearan.co.uk |
Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 23 January 2017 at 5:13pm
| viktor didn't bring up pkn in this thread either.. |
Posted By: MattStolton
Date Posted: 23 January 2017 at 5:56pm
Ideally, I would agree with you. However, Andy has to "compete" with people selling things less than honestly, and people are sucked in by fake specs, in much the same way as they are sucked in by fake news! This is is why virtually all punters who walk into a (my) disco shop, ask for speakers by the wattage, and not the SPL. So everyone sells speakers by wattage, even though good 300W cabs, will out perform most 10000W PMPO cabs! However, there is a certain "demographic" that will insist their Norfolk Reds outperform a TMS4 box....Try and argue the toss with them, and they walk off and spend their money elsewhere....Being correct means you end up bankrupt, and some lieing fugger makes the money. Marketing is all about making the truth fit your products perception and price point, and, lets be honest, plenty of those marketing depts. plainly lie. I doubt Andy has time to get caught out, so has published what he has been initially "told", which, perhaps accidentally, got into public domain, before he has time to verify. Those of us in the know, never trust anything published from China, as they often haven't measured it. The problem is, there are plenty of peeps selling stuff, say through the bay or similar, who don't know what they are selling, and don't know whether it is true or not, and don't care. "Says it on the packaging, mate, innit tho"... I don't think Blue Aran fall into that category! I'm sure, once actually given a good thrashing and measurement, these will offer a fair price for performance, just the actual performance may be a little different from the chinese spec. Case in point - Berry Belch Fires. For the money, amazing, they have issues, don't quite meet spec, and nasty mains draw, but still amazing for the money. I would prefer anything PowerSoft, but anyone can afford berry! Have to compromise somewhere, which means running berry realistically for price point, and not expecting it to be as "resilient" as a PowerSoft, or other pro touring bit of gear. The problem stems from the sort of body who can only afford a budget berry, or other chinese knock offs, may not have the knowledge of how to run if safely. Icky race to the bottom. ------------- Matt Stolton - Technical Director (!!!) - http://www.wildingsound.co.uk" rel="nofollow - Wilding Sound Ltd "Sparkius metiretur vestra" - "Meter Your Mains" |
Posted By: Andy Kos
Date Posted: 23 January 2017 at 6:41pm
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This amp does/will run 2 ohm, and from initial tests I wouldnt have any issues running mid-high with high-ish crest factor on this amp. It has sufficient voltage rails for the dynamics for mid-high, and doesn't seems to show any signs of overheating at 2 ohms in this application. I do however, know how some people run their subs, and the type of music they run, and how they set compressors/limiters, etc - thats a completely different kettle of fish and is much more demanding in terms of long term current demands, and this is why Im a little hesitant in recommening this for SUB use at 2 ohms. In fact I wouldnt recommend it for sub use - as its almost certain it will run very hot. But if you ask a group of pro audio users, you will find many will recommend against 2 ohm use at full power on sub duty. Despite the amps 'officially' being 'capable' - its not the best idea. More tests to follow, but as mentioned above by Matt - this amp is more aimed at the budget end of the market, so the power specs are pitched accordingly to align themselves with competing amplifiers. Trouble is, how do you spec a budget amp thats 'sort of' OK for 2 ohms. This isnt intended to take on Powersoft.
------------- just a guy with a warehouse and a few speakers... www.bluearan.co.uk |
Posted By: U.Viktor
Date Posted: 23 January 2017 at 7:30pm
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Before speaking about what power on which load it can deliver I would love to see two small things: 1. An UNLOADED freqency plot from 6KHz up to 30KHz around half of max. output signal level. 1KHz full square wave would be interesting too.. Unloaded = No load on the output just the measurement probes 2. 6dB overload with EIAJ standard test signal Unloaded. Thats is. Then we should move forward. |
Posted By: Earplug
Date Posted: 23 January 2017 at 7:41pm
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"The
problem stems from the sort of body who can only afford a budget berry,
or other chinese knock offs, may not have the knowledge of how to run
if safely. Icky race to the bottom."
+1 I do wonder sometimes how people like Thomann survive with their 3 year guarantee. Given the number of real idiots there are out there running systems, etc. you'd think that it would be suicide to offer anything like that. And anyone with a small rig that wants to run their subs at 2 ohms off a cheapo amp should really go find something else to occupy their time.  ------------- Earplugs Are For Wimps! |
Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 23 January 2017 at 8:46pm
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Are you seriousley expecting in depth data of a chinese 4 channel amp that cost 800 pounds? Are you expecting Powersoft X4 results? Gimme a break will ya. Its a cheap budget amp. Not more, not less. Neither is Bluearran claiming anything different. ------------- Marjan Milosevic MM-Acoustics www.mm-acoustics.com https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713 |
Posted By: smitske96
Date Posted: 24 January 2017 at 8:58am
+1 |
Posted By: jbl_man
Date Posted: 24 January 2017 at 9:32am
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+2 Love these threads. People getting worked up about a budget amp,wether it will do 2 ohms,or comparing it to amps costing three times the amount. Great entertainment lads,keep it up! ------------- Be seeing you. |
Posted By: jbl_man
Date Posted: 24 January 2017 at 9:41am
Yes,agreed! The number of times this comes up,a whole mish-mash of different cabinets and drivers,asking which budget amp they should buy,will it do 2 ohms bridged,etc etc etc. It's all very amusing! ------------- Be seeing you. |
Posted By: Mark James
Date Posted: 24 January 2017 at 9:48am
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can you bridge it over the river kwai? ------------- me so horny me love you long throw horn loaded for her pleasure |
Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 24 January 2017 at 10:00am
 ------------- Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing. |
Posted By: WILLZTHRILLZ
Date Posted: 24 January 2017 at 10:02am
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Fuch,,,,,,, just choked on my beer !!!!!!
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Posted By: Joe Grime
Date Posted: 24 January 2017 at 10:03am
No, it will start to whistle. |
Posted By: Mark James
Date Posted: 24 January 2017 at 10:11am
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LOL!!! ------------- me so horny me love you long throw horn loaded for her pleasure |
Posted By: Andy Kos
Date Posted: 24 January 2017 at 10:29am
This is becoming a bigger and bigger issue. The more honest you are, the easier it is for someone to lie and make their product seem superior. Where Watts, SPL, etc have become a bit of an arms race in this industry, the manufacturers are getting in on the game, to the point that as a dealer you feel obliged to disect the information supplied and turn it into something meaningful which isnt an outright lie. If you build/supply a ground breaking product thats top of the range, sure people will admire it - but if you give it a top of the range price too, first thing people do is compare it to the cheapest crap they can dredge out of ebay, because 'on paper' they appear to be comparable. We dont plan to make this amp available for sale until its been thoroughly tested, and at that point we will do our best to publish a 'real world' set of figures which are actually meaningful and not just eye-catching. Sure we'll include something to big it up and make people take notice, otherwise we wont sell any, but as far as possible it will all be based on fact. ------------- just a guy with a warehouse and a few speakers... www.bluearan.co.uk |
Posted By: Mark James
Date Posted: 24 January 2017 at 10:44am
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so what you mean is a continual output at a sensible frequency as well as the burst figures?
and what about bridging over the kwai? some people might need to ------------- me so horny me love you long throw horn loaded for her pleasure |
Posted By: U.Viktor
Date Posted: 24 January 2017 at 10:54am
The Powersoft X4 is a particuliary bad comparasion. While you think you have "20K" as twice of the K10 in a box, this is NOT the case. The Powersoft X4 is as bad as cheap chinesee in terms of power (peak to sustained ratios!) however you do not see it due fancy DSP until try to deliver some demanding tones on larger speakers. DSP diverts your attention from the amplifier itself, but do not forget the main function would be an amp! The Powersoft K10 has at least 5500W capability power supply for the 10K output, while the X4 measured 4KW(400V 3PH!) for 20KW!? |
Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 24 January 2017 at 11:06am
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Yeah right. ------------- Marjan Milosevic MM-Acoustics www.mm-acoustics.com https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713 |
Posted By: Andy Kos
Date Posted: 24 January 2017 at 11:11am
We're struggling on the river kwai bit - we do however have a small puddle outside the fire exit, and we could test it over that. We're hoping/planning to get a UK measure EIAJ rating at 2,4,8 ohms as per standards, and then also continuous sine wave at 1khz (common standard), again at 2,4 and 8 ohms. Finally we will try to get some sort of rating for 'sub use' 20hz -200hz at 4 and 8 ohms. It should atleast give some meaningful data. ------------- just a guy with a warehouse and a few speakers... www.bluearan.co.uk |
Posted By: Elliot Thompson
Date Posted: 24 January 2017 at 11:28am
That's what happens when a few feel threatened of competition. Since Class D amplifiers are inexpensive to design and, are known from the manufacture's marketing team to promote burst ratings to the point of brainwashing a good portion of their customers, it was only a matter of time before the Asian market would capitalise on it. Interesting enough, the Behringer INUKE 12000 (Non DSP) will be available in February of 2017 to purchase in which you can pre-order now for $600.00 in the States. And rest assure, those with connections will get them cheaper than that brand new in the box. In order to stay competitive in this market companies will have to focus on their on-board computer networks in their amplifiers for high burst rated wattage figures, cannot dictate an astronomical price for an amplifier anymore. Best Regards,
------------- Elliot Thompson |
Posted By: Earplug
Date Posted: 24 January 2017 at 1:35pm
The upside to all this is that you can pick up some amazing bargains on old amps that people now find "too heavy" to carry around. In the last few months I've practically been gifted 1 x Amcron Microtech 600, 2 x Harrison P900's and 4 x JBL MX1200's.  ------------- Earplugs Are For Wimps! |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 24 January 2017 at 1:38pm
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i just sold 2 inf8v2 for £1700 as well. but not because lightweights do a better job, purely in the quest for efficiency |
Posted By: Elliot Thompson
Date Posted: 24 January 2017 at 3:43pm
Nice! I picked up a few bargains on a few old amplifiers as well. Crown XLS 900: £91.00 Crown Powertech 3: £114.00 Crown Powertech 3: £119.00 Crown Com-Tech 200: £29.00 Thats with shipping! Best Regards, ------------- Elliot Thompson |
Posted By: nickyburnell
Date Posted: 24 January 2017 at 5:36pm
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One thing about all this iNuke stuff. It's obviously aimed at low end users, lets not let time pacify, they look hideous and are built to a price. They also aim the marketing at the PMPO brigade and use low end connectors etc. Despite this many a semi-pro user says they do the job. Would it not then make sense to do a better version, normal looking, proper connectors, quieter fans, a few more internal components, protection and market it with real RMS? Another 100/150 quid on the price? There is deffo a gap in the market here. Berry seem content to leave the semi pro with the EP range. ------------- It's everything, not everythink! |
Posted By: smitske96
Date Posted: 24 January 2017 at 5:43pm
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If you would advertise with real RMS figures, almost every new high power amp would look bad.. The best thing would be, that all manufactures will use the same measuring method and conditions. |
Posted By: U.Viktor
Date Posted: 24 January 2017 at 6:10pm
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To make a *car amp core* device like INUKE is easy and cheap. To make a real professional high power amp with decent sustained power ratings is exceptionally difficult and VERY expensive! There are just really few good amps on the market, yet with compromises! I have some connections with amp and industrial inverter/psu manufacturers. Just a single decent power supply contains twice as many components than complete INUKE. |
Posted By: jammin75
Date Posted: 24 January 2017 at 6:13pm
yes they dont look all that when u lift them up weigh about the same as 48 box weetabix but for price with on board dsp and power ouput puts a lot of amps to shame they are reliable too yes i wud pay more for a better version but inuke 6000dsp is good for a lot applications we see if mine lasts the full 3 years  ------------- feel the vibes !!! "Who Feels it Knows it" Strong like Lion |
Posted By: WILLZTHRILLZ
Date Posted: 24 January 2017 at 7:00pm
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Thomann 3 year guarantee is going to be hard to beat. I wish you well Andy
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Posted By: WILLZTHRILLZ
Date Posted: 24 January 2017 at 7:04pm
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But you could buy two I Pukes for that money and get change back. No offence meant or intended,,,,its a fuckin hard market place. Will
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Posted By: Andy Kos
Date Posted: 24 January 2017 at 7:12pm
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You're not wrong there, its very hard but there are lots of twists, and not everything is about the cheapest price. Let's suppose I have an amp thats a little better than an Inuke (maybe it is, maybe it isnt) - but I go into this with the intent of selling X quantity of amps rather than X thousand amps. Im not just stacking them as high as I can and shoving them out the door as quickly as possible, I've got a slightly better amp, and I just want it to tick over. NOT being well known as a cheap amp can be beneficial, for example for an installer. How many installers could fit an Inuke into a club and actually make a profit out of it - club can jump online and search out the cheapest price, and installer makes bugger all profit if they match thomann's price. If you can supply a product that Thomann dont have, as an installer, it's easier to justify your price, and your client cant get you to price match Thomann. If the cheapest amp was the only solution, there would be no other amps. Not everyone wants the cheapest, thats why there are still loads of other brands out there. Final price on this amp has not been settled yet - we did put up a price just to complete the product on the website, but the final price will depend on exchange rates, and quantities - and we plan to leave a little scope for trade pricing too. ------------- just a guy with a warehouse and a few speakers... www.bluearan.co.uk |
Posted By: WILLZTHRILLZ
Date Posted: 24 January 2017 at 7:19pm
Hey Jammin,, I use weetabix for makin swalley lolGettin far too old for this humpin n shuntin, Will
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Posted By: m0gsi
Date Posted: 24 January 2017 at 7:47pm
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I guess the TSA4-1300 and the XT6004 are the ones to beat. It's a shame nobody is doing group tests on this forum now. |
Posted By: nickyburnell
Date Posted: 24 January 2017 at 7:58pm
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Jesus, I've been so busy slagging I misread all the ads for the iNuke. Somehow I had them as 500 quid. 300 odd, that's mental. Right, I get it, gob shut. ------------- It's everything, not everythink! |
Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 25 January 2017 at 12:16pm
Aaaarggh!!!! I wanted 1x of these.   ------------- Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing. |
Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 25 January 2017 at 12:41pm
Nicky, IMHO, the last amps to properly perform to RMS specs were, Crown Macrotech series, Crest x001 series, CA18, EV P3000, QSC PL9, 5050/4050HD family (EX, MX, MPX/MPA), Proline 2700/3000, Void Infinite 8 MK1/2, Few other transformer amps. IMHO, If you need rms power X on sub, you need lightweight amp rated to provide approx 2X. You don't really need RMS power for sub, as sub is not continuous, however amps that can survive 40hz sine waves, just seem to sound better, than those that can't, but with wasted current/heat. Behringer INUKES are an oddity. Forget specs, lab test says it all, and in real life gigs, supremely accurate 2x INUKE 6000s (2x channel), costs approx £600, 3 year warranty, & if used 1x 8 ohm per channel, properly/reliably puts 1kw into each cab, downto 30hz, and stay cool (even with pre amp boost   ), wasting precious little wall juice, and for approx 15kg of weight.For 4x cabs, This will considerably outperform MA5000VZ, QSC 5050, CA18, 9001, at 4 ohm, be much lighter/cheaper and new, and out perform many newer budget lightweights, which just don't perform to spec in reality at 4 ohms. Mate has replaced 3x 8MK2s, with pile of INUKES, and has no noticeable reduction in power. Obviously for the great majority, Berry amps on sub won't happen, but is an example of changes in amp market. ------------- Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 25 January 2017 at 12:48pm
| sorryyyyy |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 25 January 2017 at 12:49pm
sorryyyyy  |
Posted By: Earplug
Date Posted: 25 January 2017 at 1:30pm
Efficiency is good, but you can also do that by using efficient drivers. I love the D&B stuff - all done with low power, high efficient drivers/cabs. Or you can improve the overall efficiency of your rig by moving over to LED lighting. ------------- Earplugs Are For Wimps! |
Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 25 January 2017 at 1:40pm
Are you actually measuring mains consumption on the iNuke? Cos it's lightweight but is not at all mains efficient. |
Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 25 January 2017 at 2:36pm
We have 3phase distros with V/A meters per phase. To achieve same spl across 4x cabs, in same venue, with 2x INUKE6000s, required much less current than MA5000VZ (Berrys actually exceed MA5000VZ output, sounding much better), and about 2-3A less than 1x 8MK2 powering 4x cabs. This all adds up when you need to power 4-8x cabs, and only have 13A sockets, and can't tinker with Fuse Board, etc. ------------- Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing. |
Posted By: nickyburnell
Date Posted: 25 January 2017 at 4:49pm
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@ Lev. The non DSP is down to 260 odd. Is the 4r performance OK outside of Roots world for running 4 x 600w XB/Celestion etc? ------------- It's everything, not everythink! |
Posted By: Elliot Thompson
Date Posted: 25 January 2017 at 5:25pm
That is not a fair comparison. One does not compare 2 amplifiers versus 1 amplifier in terms of output performance. What you achieved is a power to weight/consumption ratio using two amplifiers versus one. Output power to output power comparison using two amplifiers versus one would not be classified as fair at all.
Best Regards,
------------- Elliot Thompson |
Posted By: Elliot Thompson
Date Posted: 25 January 2017 at 5:35pm
The problem is many companies abandoned the idea without giving it a try. How do they know the market is not there if they have never tried? I would imagine this is the reason many decided to build their own high powered amplifiers in the Philippines for the majority of manufactures are content on focusing on burst rated amplifiers. Best Regards, ------------- Elliot Thompson |
Posted By: MattStolton
Date Posted: 25 January 2017 at 5:37pm
Depending on your meter, it may miss the odd "draw characteristic". I'm not saying they're shite, for the money quite the opposite, but power draw on a 'scope was "alarming". There is a thread in these here parts with said plots. Basically only seemed to draw current for 10% of waveform of AC in, so only the crest of incoming sine waves. If your pulling it from a wall, it is the generation and distribution peeps issue, but from a generator? Wouldn't fancy it much, as you would have to load bank and dump watts as heat, to dilute the power factor. My Brother-in-law-to-be works for the Irish Electricity distribution bunch (EirGrid IIRC), and they have real issues with PF from SMPSU, and from Wind Farms dumping in, doing silly buggers. Often speak to him about stuff like this, and you can see his eyes roll back in his head, and he starts to sweat slightly. http://forum.speakerplans.com/behringer-inuke-nu6000-vs-kam-kxd7200-bench-tested_topic69202.html?KW=inuke+measurements" rel="nofollow - From this thread , bottom trace is AC current draw: "Now changing to 31Hz, the NU6000 now manages 1.16kW into 8 Ohms with one or both channels driven. The traces below are for 2 channels driven and the current is now at 50A/division!"  Further pic from P2 of threead concentrating on power draw:  Much as iNuke is silly cheap, I can't afford to run a lightweight rig for from grid power, and then have a second range of amps for running of gen-sets. ------------- Matt Stolton - Technical Director (!!!) - http://www.wildingsound.co.uk" rel="nofollow - Wilding Sound Ltd "Sparkius metiretur vestra" - "Meter Your Mains" |
Posted By: U.Viktor
Date Posted: 25 January 2017 at 6:03pm
Here is the big problem, I see almost a hundred Ampéres peak current for 1050W output due very narrow angle of conducting. Normally the current draw should look like the green line I marked (or even smaller..): Unfortunately such peaky behaviour is usually not displayed by the current meters, neither you see likely voltage sag on the loaded phase and short overvoltage peaks on the opposite phase(s) unless you have network analyzer or oscilloscope connected :-( All BAD SMPS (without PFC) and toroidal (low frequency transformer powered) amps share same problem!!! It is impossible to run several amplifiers safely with that bad power factor. It would kill generators, distrupts voltage controllers, ruin balance of phase lines due excessive peak currents. You have a good chance that it will bring down other equipment connected to the opposite phases when unbalance occurs. |
Posted By: APW
Date Posted: 25 January 2017 at 6:34pm
This problem exists with all 'Old school' transformer and all SMPS equipment that has a rectifier and large capacitor smoothing and no PFC.... How have we managed like this for the last 75+ years!!! Strange how it's now "impossible" but we have been doing it for over half a century and it has until recently been fine!! I know these large peeks caused by the capacitor bank charging at just before the peek of the mains cycle cause issues for the power distribution companies but it is not 'Impossible', a half decent 'stiff' supply from the power company should not have any issues powering a bunch of these amps and a decent gen-set with a sensible static load will also be fine. Matt: |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 25 January 2017 at 8:21pm
| Inefficiently :) |
Posted By: jammin75
Date Posted: 25 January 2017 at 8:56pm
so on sub duty 2x inuke 6000 vs pkn 6000 ?? what wud happen 2 cheap inuke powerin 4 x 1850 scoop on pre vs the pkn 6000 ?? ------------- feel the vibes !!! "Who Feels it Knows it" Strong like Lion |
Posted By: nickyburnell
Date Posted: 25 January 2017 at 8:57pm
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Blimey! OK, so did all the Hill amps at Live Aid have PFC? Probably not and the gens would have been equally old tech. Point taken. Can see why there is no, "pro" implementation of iNukes tech now, as all modern touring stuff would have PFC. So: Can PFC be implemented on iNuke tech, will it affect the output and how much would it cost? Those with big tech knowledge should be able to answer all that, and if it's possible market a proper version. Copying Behringers tech LOL After all there aint much in there to copy....------------- It's everything, not everythink! |
Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 25 January 2017 at 9:27pm
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Quick reply to few posts, I don't have any Berrys, but mate has loads, & I tuned his LMS, & often help string up, baby sit, string down rig for most gigs. Often taking number of my cabs for a blast. With 2x Berrys powering 4x cabs, hpf of 36hz, & giving it beans on Pre, (proper limiter setup of course ) is walk in park.Personally seen this attempted on PKN XE6000s, & even with hpf at 50hz, amp was almost thermalling, most of the night. Talking about unfair comparison is irrelevant. Comparing amps in gigs, playing music, is real world stuff.  Back on Topic, sure Andy's amps, would look more respectful in racks, than orange and grey suited Berrys.. ------------- Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing. |
Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 25 January 2017 at 9:31pm
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Also, regarding Gensets, would think crews respected enough to do serious outside gigs, would not be using INUKES. ------------- Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing. |