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Budget Soundsystem with Turbosound

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URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=97852
Printed Date: 17 October 2017 at 11:13pm
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Topic: Budget Soundsystem with Turbosound
Posted By: Futendra
Subject: Budget Soundsystem with Turbosound
Date Posted: 20 February 2017 at 3:10pm
Hi!

So me and a couple of friends are starting a soundsystem (for techno, hardcore, breakcore, acid, jungle, ragga, ...) and we're able to buy 4 Turbosound Flashlight TFS 780's. I have a couple of questions about them.

1) Is 750 euros each a good deal on these? They have been used by a heavy hardcore-based soundsystem.

2) Are the following amps good enough for them, or will it be wasted money? (I will put 2 speakers parallel on each side):
LMF: the t.amp E-800
HMF:  Behringer KM750
HF: the t.amp S-100 MK II

3) What would be the best way to connect my three NL4 outputs to the EP6 output per side?

I am also thinking about making 6 W-bins to go with them, loaded with a RCF LF18G401, powered by a the t.amp TSA 4000. Is this a good idea?




EDIT:
In order to make the new plan clear;

1) We will have 6 labhorns.

2) We bought two Turbosound TMS-3's, that will be powered by:
HF: Europower EP1500
HMF: tamp TSA 4-1300
LMF: tamp TSA 4-1300

3) As for processor we bought a Behringer DCX2496 Ultradrive Pro:
- 1 output for the bass
- 1 output for the LMF
- 2 ouputs (stereo) for the HMF
- 2 outputs (stereo) for the HF



Replies:
Posted By: Mark James
Date Posted: 20 February 2017 at 3:32pm
well for one i can say they are a good cabinet , amp choice seems a bit iffy tho i would say lol id get some matrix xt800 on tops [yeah im just saying that cos thats waht im using] remember they are 16ohm cabs tho] nice cabs tho

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If you want people to feel the bass then a reflex design is probably best as you get the most air movement per decibel from those.      errrrr yes wtf?


Posted By: Futendra
Date Posted: 20 February 2017 at 3:45pm
Originally posted by Mark James Mark James wrote:

well for one i can say they are a good cabinet , amp choice seems a bit iffy tho i would say lol id get some matrix xt800 on tops [yeah im just saying that cos thats waht im using] remember they are 16ohm cabs tho] nice cabs tho


Yeah, we don't have a lot of budget at all. We have around 7000 euros total.
How do you connect your amps to the EP6 connection?


Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 20 February 2017 at 3:59pm
where are you and what's the currency you have 7000 of?

flashlight tops are very narrow dispersion, not made to be used as singles, so you'd want to use the 2 each side every time the system is out.

w-bins are pretty old now. not many people making them these days.

read up on patch panels to find out how multiple amps get to speakers.


Posted By: Futendra
Date Posted: 20 February 2017 at 4:25pm
Originally posted by cravings cravings wrote:

where are you and what's the currency you have 7000 of?

flashlight tops are very narrow dispersion, not made to be used as singles, so you'd want to use the 2 each side every time the system is out.

w-bins are pretty old now. not many people making them these days.

read up on patch panels to find out how multiple amps get to speakers.


Euros. I didn't know the symbols were bugged.

The plan is to use the 2 each side, or build it up as a wall.

What is a best bang for the buck alternative to the W-bin? I particularly like them because they only use one driver for 2 horns and they are the perfect size to put the Flashlights on, but there might be something better out there I don't know about.


Posted By: Mark James
Date Posted: 20 February 2017 at 4:51pm
i have to be honest in my opinion best option for bass [and would work well in your situation as long as 4 in a stack well 2 should be ok just restrict power] is the 186 horn with the challenger 18 driver can get from blue arran if you buy 6+ im sure they will do a deal, i got 8 atm and soon to be 12+ and they do the trick if your carefull on the power in the 186 horn they go down to 40 ish hz  

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If you want people to feel the bass then a reflex design is probably best as you get the most air movement per decibel from those.      errrrr yes wtf?


Posted By: Futendra
Date Posted: 20 February 2017 at 4:57pm
Originally posted by Mark James Mark James wrote:

i have to be honest in my opinion best option for bass [and would work well in your situation as long as 4 in a stack well 2 should be ok just restrict power] is the 186 horn with the challenger 18 driver can get from blue arran if you buy 6+ im sure they will do a deal, i got 8 atm and soon to be 12+ and they do the trick if your carefull on the power in the 186 horn they go down to 40 ish hz  


With the 186 horn I would need at least 6 on each side, just to be able to stack the Turbosounds on top. That will be really pricey and a lot of work, while W-bins do the trick. I want people standing in front to stand in the bass, with the mids and highs flying over them. I don't want to blow people's ears of with highs and mids...


Posted By: midas
Date Posted: 20 February 2017 at 4:58pm
Will they go up to meet the flash though? Or will you need a kick bin to start with?

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In bass no one can hear you scream!


Posted By: Mark James
Date Posted: 20 February 2017 at 5:12pm
wodering that myself tbh lol the 186 might just about stretch that high will be dicey though i wouldnt want to do it lol just realised 180 crossover poit prefered lol

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If you want people to feel the bass then a reflex design is probably best as you get the most air movement per decibel from those.      errrrr yes wtf?


Posted By: Futendra
Date Posted: 20 February 2017 at 5:12pm
Originally posted by midas midas wrote:

Will they go up to meet the flash though? Or will you need a kick bin to start with?


I have no idea about the W-bin design, but the driver has a frequency response of 30 - 1000Hz, and it can drop down to 40Hz with 4 W-bins.

The Flashlights have a frequency response of 150Hz - 20kHz. So based on that, they must definitely meet. The Flashlights go quite low.


Posted By: bass*en*mass
Date Posted: 20 February 2017 at 5:14pm
750 for some likely ragged/abused ones seems a bit much imo
(spare parts are expensive)

i would get some bigger amps to power them, rather look for SH offers on old crest/camco etc. instead of the low budget behringer ones.




Posted By: shagnasty
Date Posted: 20 February 2017 at 5:21pm
I am not sure a 186 horn will hit 170Hz very nicely...
4x21s and TSW 718 on top would work.

As for phyical wiring, you need a patch panel with NL4 to EP out and then some 6 core 2.5mm to the Flash, given the cost of EP series connectors (and wank shaped holes required for the females) I would SERIOUSLY consider a jump to NL8 before you start, NL8 chassis cons are not expensive and if you don't already have ep6 cabling just so 8 core and send your bass and LM-HM-HF all down one cable!

Most amps have ch A+B on speakon A so a simple 3xNL4 to 2x EP6 will get stereo out the amps, but 4x NL4 to 2xNL8 would be better...

I can draw a quick pic if you are confused..

:-)





Posted By: Futendra
Date Posted: 20 February 2017 at 5:25pm
Originally posted by shagnasty shagnasty wrote:

I am not sure a 186 horn will hit 170Hz very nicely...
4x21s and TSW 718 on top would work.

As for phyical wiring, you need a patch panel with NL4 to EP out and then some 6 core 2.5mm to the Flash, given the cost of EP series connectors (and wank shaped holes required for the females) I would SERIOUSLY consider a jump to NL8 before you start, NL8 chassis cons are not expensive and if you don't already have ep6 cabling just so 8 core and send your bass and LM-HM-HF all down one cable!

Most amps have ch A+B on speakon A so a simple 3xNL4 to 2x EP6 will get stereo out the amps, but 4x NL4 to 2xNL8 would be better...

I can draw a quick pic if you are confused..

:-)





I am quite confused indeed. How can I get 4x NL4 from 3 amps? Sounds strange?


Posted By: bass*en*mass
Date Posted: 20 February 2017 at 5:31pm
its 8core you need as shaq mentioned..
amps in rack-wired to a 8core (nl8) speakon on a patch panel-8core to your stacks-links between cabs also 8core-makes for a quick and neat wiring at the costs of rel. expensive cable and connectors


Posted By: Futendra
Date Posted: 20 February 2017 at 5:37pm
Originally posted by bass*en*mass bass*en*mass wrote:

its 8core you need as shaq mentioned..
amps in rack-wired to a 8core (nl8) speakon on a patch panel-8core to your stacks-links between cabs also 8core-makes for a quick and neat wiring at the costs of rel. expensive cable and connectors

How do I get to NL8 from three NL4 outputs? I'm confused. I never used any other cabling than NL4 before.


Posted By: bass*en*mass
Date Posted: 20 February 2017 at 6:02pm
nl8 sockets in patchpanel- solder 4 cables going to the dedicated amps
1+-bass
2+-mid
3+-midhi
4+-hi

for example..
(have a look at patchpanels, you`ll get it quick looking at a pic)


Posted By: Futendra
Date Posted: 20 February 2017 at 6:18pm
Originally posted by bass*en*mass bass*en*mass wrote:

nl8 sockets in patchpanel- solder 4 cables going to the dedicated amps
1+-bass
2+-mid
3+-midhi
4+-hi

for example..
(have a look at patchpanels, you`ll get it quick looking at a pic)

So you suggest modding the Turbosounds to have NL8 inputs?

Originally posted by midas midas wrote:

Will they go up to meet the flash though? Or will you need a kick bin to start with?

The W-bin is 40-1000Hz, so it should be fine with the Flashlight (them being 150Hz-20kHz). Or do you think I still need a kick bin with that (don't the Flashlights give enough kick already)?


Posted By: bob4
Date Posted: 20 February 2017 at 7:39pm
Originally posted by Futendra Futendra wrote:


The W-bin is 40-1000Hz

nope, it's not. Wbins have folds that will definitely restrict upper cutoff frequency. There will be no useful output (and sound quality for that matter) anywhere near 1000Hz or even 500 Hz.

I've heard big stacks of ported stage accompany Wbins, and it was unimpressive to say the least. Ports farted and compressed like hell, and output compared to stack size was unfavorable and not as physical as you would want.

Some wild suggestions: 1)18" or 21" PPSL?
     2) cyclops
3) maybe keystone subs (art welter on diyaudio.com)?



 


Posted By: Futendra
Date Posted: 20 February 2017 at 7:57pm
Originally posted by bob4 bob4 wrote:

Originally posted by Futendra Futendra wrote:


The W-bin is 40-1000Hz

nope, it's not. Wbins have folds that will definitely restrict upper cutoff frequency. There will be no useful output (and sound quality for that matter) anywhere near 1000Hz or even 500 Hz.

I've heard big stacks of ported stage accompany Wbins, and it was unimpressive to say the least. Ports farted and compressed like hell, and output compared to stack size was unfavorable and not as physical as you would want.

Some wild suggestions: 1)18" or 21" PPSL?
     2) cyclops
3) maybe keystone subs (art welter on diyaudio.com)?



I definitely do not want drivers exposed. We will throw hard parties with them, and I want to avoid them getting damaged because of drinks. I also don't like the idea that I have to make MORE of a different kind of cabinet to get close to the size of the W-bins. They will be an absolute beast with quite a lot of power for the space, without any driver exposed.



I also got what you guys meant with the NL8's. I'd make a patch panel that has 2x three NL4's going in, and 2x an NL8 going out. Then I would make a cable that has NL8 on one end, and EP6 on the other?


Posted By: Mark James
Date Posted: 20 February 2017 at 8:06pm
beast and w bins in the same sentence? id like to see this altho i kknow its not doable lol

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If you want people to feel the bass then a reflex design is probably best as you get the most air movement per decibel from those.      errrrr yes wtf?


Posted By: Futendra
Date Posted: 20 February 2017 at 8:09pm
Well, a budget beast at least. I think it's the only thing doable for 7000 euros of total budget. I can't throw money at twelve 186 horns now.


Posted By: madboffin
Date Posted: 20 February 2017 at 8:10pm
I'm not sure this is a good idea.

Flashlight is really a specialised "long throw" (OK, unscientific term, but you know what I mean) cabinet, with narrow dispersion and intended to be used in a multicell-style array. Each box is good for about 20 or 25 degrees of coverage.

With only two per stack, this will not be wide enough for general applications.

What you really need is Floodlight, with twice the coverage per box (and a smoother sound).

@ Sean (shagnasty) - what's your opinion on this?



Posted By: Futendra
Date Posted: 20 February 2017 at 8:13pm
Originally posted by madboffin madboffin wrote:

I'm not sure this is a good idea.

Flashlight is really a specialised "long throw" (OK, unscientific term, but you know what I mean) cabinet, with narrow dispersion and intended to be used in a multicell-style array. Each box is good for about 20 or 25 degrees of coverage.

With only two per stack, this will not be wide enough for general applications.

What you really need is Floodlight, with twice the coverage per box (and a smoother sound).

@ Sean (shagnasty) - what's your opinion on this?


Well, it is meant for playing outside to small groups of people usually directly in front of the speakers... I don't need the sound to spread that much. The less spread the better, actually.


Posted By: Mark James
Date Posted: 20 February 2017 at 8:26pm
my 8 soon to be 10 186 owe me less than 3000 euros at a push lol think more like 2500 so far :-) [about 150 quid a cab so far lol] probably more like 2000 eauros lol

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If you want people to feel the bass then a reflex design is probably best as you get the most air movement per decibel from those.      errrrr yes wtf?


Posted By: bob4
Date Posted: 20 February 2017 at 8:28pm
Originally posted by Futendra Futendra wrote:


 I also don't like the idea that I have to make MORE of a different kind of cabinet to get close to the size of the W-bins. 

??? what do you mean? I wasn't suggesting two-way bass solution, just some sub designs that came to my mind that have been discussed in the DIY community and received good feedback from users.  


Originally posted by Futendra Futendra wrote:

I definitely do not want drivers exposed. We will throw hard parties with them, and I want to avoid them getting damaged because of drinks. They will be an absolute beast with quite a lot of power for the space, without any driver exposed.

all suggested designs have the driver inside the enclosure, not directly mounted on a front baffle. If you do a proper build, you should always add professional grade grill + protective foam, so it's a moot point regardless…. Ouch Beer

I restate my opinion, based on personal experience: wbins are not worth the trouble, there are much better designs these days


Posted By: Mark James
Date Posted: 20 February 2017 at 8:34pm
admittedly the 186 sounds gash above about 150hz but in my experience [ive used w bins alot btw]  the w bins sound about the same up there tbh

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If you want people to feel the bass then a reflex design is probably best as you get the most air movement per decibel from those.      errrrr yes wtf?


Posted By: Futendra
Date Posted: 20 February 2017 at 8:37pm
Originally posted by bob4 bob4 wrote:

??? what do you mean? I wasn't suggesting two-way bass solution, just some sub designs that came to my mind that have been discussed in the DIY community and received good feedback from users. 

We haven't made any cabinets yet. It would be our first time making them. So we have the choice to make 6 W-bins, or 12 of something else, just to be able to physically fit the tops on them.


Originally posted by bob4 bob4 wrote:

all suggested designs have the driver inside the enclosure, not directly mounted on a front baffle. If you do a proper build, you should always add professional grade grill + protective foam, so it's a moot point regardless…. Ouch Beer

I restate my opinion, based on personal experience: wbins are not worth the trouble, there are much better designs these days

Yes, the driver is inside an enclosure, but they are still exposed. W-bins have no exposed drivers. Can someone explain to me why everyone thinks W-bins are "not worth the trouble"? All soundsystems I have heard with W-bins were sounding fine.


Originally posted by Mark James Mark James wrote:

my 8 soon to be 10 186 owe me less than 3000 euros at a push lol think more like 2500 so far :-) [about 150 quid a cab so far lol] probably more like 2000 eauros lol

The issue is also that I can only fit three Flashlights on top of two 186 horns, So I'd need to have an awkward amount of three 186 horns in order to fit the four Flashlights, which will also look very awkward.


Posted By: Mark James
Date Posted: 20 February 2017 at 8:57pm
just build something similar to the bins that the flash was meant to be used with? ie build 6 double es18/usb? id be more worried what it sounds like than what it looks like tbh i mean 12 w bins might look good but it isnt something id be building, altho saying that what do i know i only got rid of ours lol

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If you want people to feel the bass then a reflex design is probably best as you get the most air movement per decibel from those.      errrrr yes wtf?


Posted By: Robbo
Date Posted: 20 February 2017 at 9:25pm
Originally posted by Futendra Futendra wrote:

Originally posted by madboffin madboffin wrote:

I'm not sure this is a good idea.





Well, it is meant for playing outside to small groups of people usually directly in front of the speakers... I don't need the sound to spread that much. The less spread the better, actually.


If this is what you are hoping to achieve then Flashlight would be the worst possible cabinet for the job---Just buy or build direct radiating cabinets and forget about horn loaded longthrow boxes.


Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 20 February 2017 at 9:45pm
ok this is a teknival style thing he's going for i think.. so it'll be a mono stack, so 4 flash are probably quite good on a mono lump.


Posted By: Futendra
Date Posted: 20 February 2017 at 9:49pm
Originally posted by Robbo Robbo wrote:

Originally posted by Futendra Futendra wrote:

Originally posted by madboffin madboffin wrote:

I'm not sure this is a good idea.





Well, it is meant for playing outside to small groups of people usually directly in front of the speakers... I don't need the sound to spread that much. The less spread the better, actually.


If this is what you are hoping to achieve then Flashlight would be the worst possible cabinet for the job---Just buy or build direct radiating cabinets and forget about horn loaded longthrow boxes.

It's the only tops that are available, as I really do not want to build tops myself. So I will go for them for sure, I just need a lot of punch and volume, really.

Originally posted by Mark James Mark James wrote:

just build something similar to the bins that the flash was meant to be used with? ie build 6 double es18/usb? id be more worried what it sounds like than what it looks like tbh i mean 12 w bins might look good but it isnt something id be building, altho saying that what do i know i only got rid of ours lol

We'd only build 6 W-bins. That means buying 6 drivers. Making a usb or es18 would mean 2 drivers for the same space taken. That would mean more money spent to get to the correct height to get the Flashlights on.

Originally posted by cravings cravings wrote:

ok this is a teknival style thing he's going for i think.. so it'll be a mono stack, so 4 flash are probably quite good on a mono lump.

Exactly. I do want them to be able to go stereo though, as I would like to play some psytrance and stuff with it too.


Posted By: Robbo
Date Posted: 20 February 2017 at 9:55pm
Anyone who has heard Flashlight outdoors will confirm that it can throw for miles so it will be a lot louder in the nearest village than directly in front of the cabinets--so if you want to be providing dance music to attract the local constabulary it is ideal but then it is the wrong cabinet for the use stated by the OP.


Posted By: Futendra
Date Posted: 20 February 2017 at 10:01pm
Originally posted by Robbo Robbo wrote:

Anyone who has heard Flashlight outdoors will confirm that it can throw for miles so it will be a lot louder in the nearest village than directly in front of the cabinets--so if you want to be providing dance music to attract the local constabulary it is ideal but then it is the wrong cabinet for the use stated by the OP.

This might be a really newbie question, but wont tilting them downwards help a lot?


Posted By: Mark James
Date Posted: 20 February 2017 at 10:04pm
sounds like he wants w bins despite them not being suitable for the situation so just get w bins if thats what you think looks right, what sounds good you want it for looks lol by the sounds lol i prefer to use what sounds good [clue is in the name sound system] but if what looks good is more important why ask for advice on here? 

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If you want people to feel the bass then a reflex design is probably best as you get the most air movement per decibel from those.      errrrr yes wtf?


Posted By: Mark James
Date Posted: 20 February 2017 at 10:06pm
and yes some tilt and splay [correctly applied] will help a bit here but they are mostly for long throw apps tbh nice cabs tho id go for double es18s tbh and there are plenty of cheap driveers that would work well, using twice as many wont make it louder just cover a wider area thats the whole point of a narrow dispersion mid top it doesnt get louder with more cabs just covers mroe area

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If you want people to feel the bass then a reflex design is probably best as you get the most air movement per decibel from those.      errrrr yes wtf?


Posted By: Futendra
Date Posted: 20 February 2017 at 10:10pm
Originally posted by Mark James Mark James wrote:

sounds like he wants w bins despite them not being suitable for the situation so just get w bins if thats what you think looks right, what sounds good you want it for looks lol by the sounds lol i prefer to use what sounds good [clue is in the name sound system] but if what looks good is more important why ask for advice on here? 

But other than "it wont be good" I still haven't heard why exactly it is not suitable? I am indeed very interested in how it looks, but most of all I just want it to stack properly. With most other suggestions, I am only able to fit 3 Turbosounds on top of them, while I will have 4 and want to be able to have a stereo setup.

Originally posted by Mark James Mark James wrote:

and yes some tilt and splay [correctly applied] will help a bit here but they are mostly for long throw apps tbh nice cabs tho id go for double es18s tbh and there are plenty of cheap driveers that would work well, using twice as many wont make it louder just cover a wider area thats the whole point of a narrow dispersion mid top it doesnt get louder with more cabs just covers mroe area

I've been looking at a double USB design that might be good with them, but it will definately cost almost double the money, which is a problem...


Posted By: Mark James
Date Posted: 20 February 2017 at 10:20pm
can always use empty boxes [like most free party rigs do in this set up] that arnt plugged in to make it "look good" i dont like bph personaly hence i wont use es18 or usb myself but thats just me w bins just sound :-/ to me hence i only use them at worst case nowadays
can use challenger 18mk1s from blue aran in the usb/double es18 would cos same as sinle void 18/pd loaded cabs



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If you want people to feel the bass then a reflex design is probably best as you get the most air movement per decibel from those.      errrrr yes wtf?


Posted By: Mark James
Date Posted: 20 February 2017 at 10:22pm
think ive sent on average 80 quid a box on drivers for my bins so far :p none new tho new would cost me 125 like i say if your more worried about looks than sound just use any cabs who cares lol

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If you want people to feel the bass then a reflex design is probably best as you get the most air movement per decibel from those.      errrrr yes wtf?


Posted By: Futendra
Date Posted: 20 February 2017 at 10:22pm
Making 6 double USB's will cost us 2784 euros in drivers alone, while making 6 W-bins will only cost us 1374 euros in drivers.


Posted By: Mark James
Date Posted: 20 February 2017 at 10:25pm
12 challengers would cost like 1500 quid i guess new the w bins will sound gash in comparison if you think looks is more important than sound then just stick any cabs under them it dont matter just stick anything under them its all the same just do what ever looks best lol you only need 4 double es18 anyway lol sounds like you only care how it looks in that case just do anything lol mix of scoops and random w bins it is lol looks phat m8 phat r4ve 4 lyfe

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If you want people to feel the bass then a reflex design is probably best as you get the most air movement per decibel from those.      errrrr yes wtf?


Posted By: Mark James
Date Posted: 20 February 2017 at 10:26pm
altho then using expensive tops does seem even more of a waste

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If you want people to feel the bass then a reflex design is probably best as you get the most air movement per decibel from those.      errrrr yes wtf?


Posted By: Futendra
Date Posted: 20 February 2017 at 10:30pm
Originally posted by Mark James Mark James wrote:

12 challengers would cost like 1500 quid i guess new the w bins will sound gash in comparison if you think looks is more important than sound then just stick any cabs under them it dont matter just stick anything under them its all the same just do what ever looks best lol you only need 4 double es18 anyway lol sounds like you only care how it looks in that case just do anything lol mix of scoops and random w bins it is lol looks phat m8 phat r4ve 4 lyfe

12 challengers? Inform me because if that is that cheap new, I'd go for it. I want 6 because I don't want people sitting with their faces in a long-throw Flashlight.


Posted By: Mark James
Date Posted: 20 February 2017 at 10:32pm
ive paid at most 80 quid each for mine so far admittedly new id be paying 120 each so 2000 eauros ish if im not mistaken for 12? can always leave half the boxes unloaded would look awesome lol

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If you want people to feel the bass then a reflex design is probably best as you get the most air movement per decibel from those.      errrrr yes wtf?


Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 20 February 2017 at 10:35pm
what were those big ported horns by startec called again? 3 of them a side might be good..


Posted By: Mark James
Date Posted: 20 February 2017 at 10:37pm
Originally posted by cravings cravings wrote:

what were those big ported horns by startec called again? 3 of them a side might be good..
thats a good call actualy do they play up to 180hz nicely?



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If you want people to feel the bass then a reflex design is probably best as you get the most air movement per decibel from those.      errrrr yes wtf?


Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 20 February 2017 at 10:37pm
http://forum.speakerplans.com/h-r118-by-startec_topic20528.html" rel="nofollow - http://forum.speakerplans.com/h-r118-by-startec_topic20528.html

maybe won't go high enough..


Posted By: Futendra
Date Posted: 20 February 2017 at 10:42pm
Originally posted by Mark James Mark James wrote:

ive paid at most 80 quid each for mine so far admittedly new id be paying 120 each so 2000 eauros ish if im not mistaken for 12? can always leave half the boxes unloaded would look awesome lol

The cheapest drivers I found that are compatible with the USB ( https://freespeakerplans.com/plans/14-plans/basscab/28-usb" rel="nofollow - https://freespeakerplans.com/plans/14-plans/basscab/28-usb ) are Eminence Sigma Pro-18A-2. They are 189 euros each. If I want 6 of them, that means 12 drivers. Meaning 2268 euros.

Is it possible to find drivers that are both compatible with a W-bin and the double USB? That might be the best option. So we can upgrade once we have the money.



If I get it correctly, the issue is that the W-bin wont meet the Turbosound tops? Wouldn't building a kick fix the issue?


Posted By: Futendra
Date Posted: 20 February 2017 at 10:49pm
The guys we are going to buy the Turbosounds from currently use 186's under them.


Posted By: Mark James
Date Posted: 20 February 2017 at 10:51pm
the issue is that w bins were out of date in 1970 so 50 years later they are well out of date if you realy want w bins then go for it, they aint very good tho id just build 6 usb and forget to load 3 og them will have same effect lol

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If you want people to feel the bass then a reflex design is probably best as you get the most air movement per decibel from those.      errrrr yes wtf?


Posted By: Futendra
Date Posted: 20 February 2017 at 10:54pm
Originally posted by Mark James Mark James wrote:

the issue is that w bins were out of date in 1970 so 50 years later they are well out of date if you realy want w bins then go for it, they aint very good tho id just build 6 usb and forget to load 3 og them will have same effect lol

So the USB plan I sent would be good with the flashlights? What driver do you suggest on a budget?


Posted By: Mark James
Date Posted: 20 February 2017 at 10:56pm
as i said the challenger would be ok if not hd215? with some fane sovereign?

-------------
If you want people to feel the bass then a reflex design is probably best as you get the most air movement per decibel from those.      errrrr yes wtf?


Posted By: jacethebase
Date Posted: 20 February 2017 at 10:56pm
Originally posted by Robbo Robbo wrote:

Anyone who has heard Flashlight outdoors will confirm that it can throw for miles so it will be a lot louder in the nearest village than directly in front of the cabinets--so if you want to be providing dance music to attract the local constabulary it is ideal but then it is the wrong cabinet for the use stated by the OP.


For the sake of your wallet and causing your selfs issues down the line listen to this chap! He is talking sense!

For what you want buy 2 Nexo PS15's and a LS1200 A PS controller and 2 Amps. Or a couple stacks of Ohm or similar.

Running 4 way hornloaded outside is not a starter system IMHO


-------------
www.deltastarevents.com

www.dss-audio.co.uk


Posted By: Futendra
Date Posted: 20 February 2017 at 11:00pm
Originally posted by jacethebase jacethebase wrote:

Originally posted by Robbo Robbo wrote:

Anyone who has heard Flashlight outdoors will confirm that it can throw for miles so it will be a lot louder in the nearest village than directly in front of the cabinets--so if you want to be providing dance music to attract the local constabulary it is ideal but then it is the wrong cabinet for the use stated by the OP.


For the sake of your wallet and causing your selfs issues down the line listen to this chap! He is talking sense!

For what you want buy 2 Nexo PS15's and a LS1200 A PS controller and 2 Amps. Or a couple stacks of Ohm or similar.

Running 4 way hornloaded outside is not a starter system IMHO

We'll be using them inside most of the time though. But the eventual goal is to be able to use them in a festival setting too.

Originally posted by Mark James Mark James wrote:

as i said the challenger would be ok if not hd215? with some fane sovereign?

Can you send me some info about this challenger? Search engines try really hard at showing speakers inside dodge challengers...


Posted By: bass*en*mass
Date Posted: 20 February 2017 at 11:09pm
3 budget 15/18"s in Wbins are not likely to keep up with 2 tfs780s.
Based on the Tops size you need a "platform" of 180-200cm height, 120cm width and at least 80 depth (which rules out quite a few common options) to provide some stability+get them high enough+be able to array them
..putting all 4 tops in one, non splayed, mono stack will be horrible for the sound Quality

for pure rave/hardtek/techno i would prefer nice long front loaded horns.
(w-bins, unported, are flhs but rarely offer the required horn length to play low "enough")
There are some free/cheap designs that work well with budget drivers.
As you wont be able to provide very high Amp output anyways i would def. go for more displacement(drivers) and the most efficient design (long/big horn)

btw. where are you based?
Depending on location driver prices and availability differ a lot..

regarding those patch panels/ep6 issues, do you get the ep6 cables aswell on that tfs deal?
if yes, just buy 2 ep6 sockets, build a patch for your rack and use seperate cables on bass..
if not, swap the ep6 sockets on those tops to nl8 and build cables/patch accordingly, this way you could run 3 subs (8ohm each, requires beefy amp) and 2 tops with a single cable..

you see, it all depends on a few factors :)











Posted By: jacethebase
Date Posted: 20 February 2017 at 11:10pm
Fair enough.

But from what I have read and having owned Flashlight and system tech'd various Flashlight systems over the years I Personally doubt its the ideal system for your needs.

100 - 500 people Is systems like Nexo PS etc

500-2000 People Is systems like Floodlight etc

2000+ Is systems like Flashlight, Kf850, W8 etc etc




This is obviously only my opinion. I am not trying to crush dreams, just you are going to spend alot of money so looking at other options is sensible.


-------------
www.deltastarevents.com

www.dss-audio.co.uk


Posted By: Futendra
Date Posted: 20 February 2017 at 11:23pm
Originally posted by bass*en*mass bass*en*mass wrote:

3 budget 15/18"s in Wbins are not likely to keep up with 2 tfs780s.
Based on the Tops size you need a "platform" of 180-200cm height, 120cm width and at least 80 depth (which rules out quite a few common options) to provide some stability+get them high enough+be able to array them
..putting all 4 tops in one, non splayed, mono stack will be horrible for the sound Quality

The USB design is 114cm in width and 75 in depth, and 3 of them stacked will be about 165cm high.

Originally posted by bass*en*mass bass*en*mass wrote:


for pure rave/hardtek/techno i would prefer nice long front loaded horns.
(w-bins, unported, are flhs but rarely offer the required horn length to play low "enough")
There are some free/cheap designs that work well with budget drivers.
As you wont be able to provide very high Amp output anyways i would def. go for more displacement(drivers) and the most efficient design (long/big horn)

I am afraid of damage with font loaded horns. I want the drivers to be hidden away. I personally don't need to go as low as 40Hz.

Do you have any recommendations? I don't know too many designs, really, just what is out there with a quick google search.

Originally posted by bass*en*mass bass*en*mass wrote:


btw. where are you based?
Depending on location driver prices and availability differ a lot..

Belgium

Originally posted by bass*en*mass bass*en*mass wrote:


regarding those patch panels/ep6 issues, do you get the ep6 cables aswell on that tfs deal?
if yes, just buy 2 ep6 sockets, build a patch for your rack and use seperate cables on bass..
if not, swap the ep6 sockets on those tops to nl8 and build cables/patch accordingly, this way you could run 3 subs (8ohm each, requires beefy amp) and 2 tops with a single cable..

I don't know yet, but I figured out what the actual issue is so I will see what I'll do. You would mod the actual Flashlights?

Originally posted by jacethebase jacethebase wrote:

Fair enough.

But from what I have read and having owned Flashlight and system tech'd various Flashlight systems over the years I Personally doubt its the ideal system for your needs.

100 - 500 people Is systems like Nexo PS etc

500-2000 People Is systems like Floodlight etc

2000+ Is systems like Flashlight, Kf850, W8 etc etc




This is obviously only my opinion. I am not trying to crush dreams, just you are going to spend alot of money so looking at other options is sensible.

The thing is we really don't want to waste money buying something for "in between getting better speakers". We eventually want to be able to do both smaller parties inside and do big parties outside. I think, because we will play harder genres, overkill is quite okay for the inside parties.


Posted By: Mark James
Date Posted: 20 February 2017 at 11:29pm
i just wouldnt use flash in your situation basicaly
challenger mk1 is on blue arans webpage and if you mail them im sure they could do a deal on like 8 ish of them would do you fine in all fairness 
hd15s with sovereign would happily keep up with the flash no?


-------------
If you want people to feel the bass then a reflex design is probably best as you get the most air movement per decibel from those.      errrrr yes wtf?


Posted By: bass*en*mass
Date Posted: 20 February 2017 at 11:31pm
whats the smallest places you will play in? (venue size)


Posted By: Futendra
Date Posted: 20 February 2017 at 11:33pm
Originally posted by Mark James Mark James wrote:

i just wouldnt use flash in your situation basicaly
challenger mk1 is on blue arans webpage and if you mail them im sure they could do a deal on like 8 ish of them would do you fine in all fairness 
hd15s with sovereign would happily keep up with the flash no?

I still have no clue what this challenger mk1 and blue aran is.


Posted By: Futendra
Date Posted: 20 February 2017 at 11:34pm
Originally posted by bass*en*mass bass*en*mass wrote:

whats the smallest places you will play in? (venue size)

I think in places with a maximum capacity of 350-500 people will be around the smallest.


Posted By: bass*en*mass
Date Posted: 20 February 2017 at 11:34pm
mark, hd15s and most other bphs just dont offer the required depth to make a stable stack imo..
80cm min. i would say, the deeper, the better :)





Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 20 February 2017 at 11:43pm
the challengers he's on about are P-Audio C18-650EL. and blue aran is an online speaker shop in uk.


Posted By: fatfreddiescat
Date Posted: 20 February 2017 at 11:46pm
I really don't think flashlight for your application is the way to go unless you see yourselfs putting on stadium size concerts, far from ideal at anything less than 10m, and that is still too close.
For 750euro a box you have a very wide pick of cabs to choose from, easily get floods for that money and far more versatile.


Posted By: Futendra
Date Posted: 20 February 2017 at 11:50pm
Originally posted by fatfreddiescat fatfreddiescat wrote:

I really don't think flashlight for your application is the way to go unless you see yourselfs putting on stadium size concerts, far from ideal at anything less than 10m, and that is still too close.
For 750euro a box you have a very wide pick of cabs to choose from, easily get floods for that money and far more versatile.

But the thing is that we are now offered the flashlights, and we can dive into this soundsystem with them. If we are going to sit around and wait for floodlights to pop up somewhere second hand (note we don't have cars ourselves, so we can't go far to get them) will probably just kill the project.


Posted By: Futendra
Date Posted: 21 February 2017 at 12:02am
Originally posted by cravings cravings wrote:

the challengers he's on about are P-Audio C18-650EL. and blue aran is an online speaker shop in uk.

Getting 12 of those will cost me 2732 euros. That's a ton. And I am not based in the UK, so I have to get it shipped here...


Posted By: Futendra
Date Posted: 21 February 2017 at 1:41am
Would 8 186 horns be enough for the Turbosounds? I just realized they would fit quite well size-wise if we don't tilt them. What are the best budget drivers for a 186 horn? Is loading them with RCF LF18G401's a good idea?

If so, would this be a good setup?:
8x 186 horns loaded with RCF LF18G40's
Powered with 2 Behringer iNuke NU6000DS's (2 on the left and 2 on the right in parallel for both)


Posted By: shagnasty
Date Posted: 21 February 2017 at 2:03am
A whloe loada shit on this thread.....

Zoned out, Nexo was mentioned... Yeah, right like Ever (PS10 great, the rest is firewood), EAW ( KF300, the rest is firewood)

In the real world, flash is not a small gig friendly system..


But if you do, read what I said...



Posted By: Hvedstrup
Date Posted: 21 February 2017 at 7:12am
As many have said Flash seems like a wrong choice. 4-way is not a simple set-up  and requires some knowledge. If you have to ask how to do a patch-panel then it's not for you.

Here is some Pictures of a patch panel i made for running my Floodlights 3-way with out +1/-1 since i run subs on a seperate 4mm cable.



Posted By: Teunos
Date Posted: 21 February 2017 at 7:25am
Well you can definitely notice Mark is back in town, 50 something posts in one topic since i last visitedLOL.
Kidding aside; nice to see you posting again more frequently Tongue


-------------
Best regards,
Teun.

,,Diamonds are forever''


Posted By: shagnasty
Date Posted: 21 February 2017 at 7:34am
Originally posted by Hvedstrup Hvedstrup wrote:

As many have said Flash seems like a wrong choice. 4-way is not a simple set-up  and requires some knowledge. If you have to ask how to do a patch-panel then it's not for you.

Here is some Pictures of a patch panel i made for running my Floodlights 3-way with out +1/-1 since i run subs on a seperate 4mm cable.


Exactly that, but NEVER use any crimps on NLx series connectors, weak, shoddy and not likely to last a whole gig!!!


Posted By: Hvedstrup
Date Posted: 21 February 2017 at 7:41am
Originally posted by shagnasty shagnasty wrote:

Originally posted by Hvedstrup Hvedstrup wrote:

As many have said Flash seems like a wrong choice. 4-way is not a simple set-up  and requires some knowledge. If you have to ask how to do a patch-panel then it's not for you.

Here is some Pictures of a patch panel i made for running my Floodlights 3-way with out +1/-1 since i run subs on a seperate 4mm cable.


Exactly that, but NEVER use any crimps on NLx series connectors, weak, shoddy and not likely to last a whole gig!!!
 
 
Theese are made with fastons that are soldered and heatshrinked. Never had any issues with this combo.


Posted By: shagnasty
Date Posted: 21 February 2017 at 7:50am
Fastons are a pretty crappy shortcut IMHO,  the time it takes to do a proper job it less than messing about with the fastons (crimps)  and you get a result you can take on tour...

this is quicker (OK not a patch panel inside a bass bin) and iMHO  the only way to go..

http://s1016.photobucket.com/user/shag-nasty/media/29092009_001.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: Hvedstrup
Date Posted: 21 February 2017 at 8:19am
Originally posted by shagnasty shagnasty wrote:

Fastons are a pretty crappy shortcut IMHO,  the time it takes to do a proper job it less than messing about with the fastons (crimps)  and you get a result you can take on tour...

this is quicker (OK not a patch panel inside a bass bin) and iMHO  the only way to go..

http://s1016.photobucket.com/user/shag-nasty/media/29092009_001.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">
 
Looks like a very tidy job.
 
I choose fastons since i have never had a problem with them and it's possible to take the cables off if you need to alter the configuration.


Posted By: midas
Date Posted: 21 February 2017 at 8:31am
Taking a step back for a sec.

OP is set on his W bins and Flash. How many professional sounds run this combination???? OR to turn it around, how many free party rigs use Flash with W bins????

If you want someone to talk sense, not just pro audio. Stop what you are doing and take a step back.

You seem to have your heart set on the Flash boxes. BUT given the rest of the amateur equipment you want to use with it, it will take you years to have the same level amps and control gear to go with it.

As stated, Flash are not starter rig boxes. Who is going to set it all up for you, delays, levels of individual components? Not you obviously.

If I was looking for a starter rig the very simplest of places to look is dual 18 reflex and 12 inch reflex with 1.4 or 2 inch horn.

Much easier for you to get used to, cheaper drivers available and you can run them from an analogue cross over and two amps.

It may also surprise you to find out that spending some money on soft furnishings to soften the room characteristics would probably make a lot more sense that stunning tops run off crap....

Given that you have no idea of nl8's, you could very easily end up damaging peoples ears or blowing drivers.

Oh, Shaggers, I have just bought some KF300's. Nice to see I have made a good purchase.

-------------
In bass no one can hear you scream!


Posted By: m0gsi
Date Posted: 21 February 2017 at 9:25am
Use the legit NL-Fastons with the locking tab. Not had a problem yet.

As for the OP. Get some 2 ways tops. Mt121s or similar. For 1000 euro I bet someone would pallet you 4 used ones from england. You could run the lot off a 4 channel from thomann.


Posted By: Futendra
Date Posted: 21 February 2017 at 12:41pm
Originally posted by midas midas wrote:

Taking a step back for a sec.

OP is set on his W bins and Flash. How many professional sounds run this combination???? OR to turn it around, how many free party rigs use Flash with W bins????

The plan now is to combine them with 186 horns, which the previous owners also did. And to be fair, a lot of rigs use W-bins with TMS4's in the "scene".


Originally posted by midas midas wrote:


You seem to have your heart set on the Flash boxes. BUT given the rest of the amateur equipment you want to use with it, it will take you years to have the same level amps and control gear to go with it.

How is this a problem, really? I think it's a wise choice to buy good speakers and mediocre amps, and then just improve the amps over time.

Originally posted by midas midas wrote:


As stated, Flash are not starter rig boxes. Who is going to set it all up for you, delays, levels of individual components? Not you obviously.

I do know a lot more about delays and levels. I am just entirely new to DIY and Turbosound. And as stated before, I would not be the only one building. We have some great builders.

Originally posted by midas midas wrote:


If I was looking for a starter rig the very simplest of places to look is dual 18 reflex and 12 inch reflex with 1.4 or 2 inch horn.
Much easier for you to get used to, cheaper drivers available and you can run them from an analogue cross over and two amps.

I don't want to go reflex. We will play outside, too. I am also not looking for "the deepest possible bass" like all you guys here. I don't even need to get down to 40Hz.

Originally posted by midas midas wrote:


It may also surprise you to find out that spending some money on soft furnishings to soften the room characteristics would probably make a lot more sense that stunning tops run off crap....

I know, but we are on a tight budget.

Originally posted by midas midas wrote:


Given that you have no idea of nl8's, you could very easily end up damaging peoples ears or blowing drivers.

As I said before, DIY-wise, I am new, but I am not alone in this. I can find help for these kinds of things easily.


Posted By: Sypa
Date Posted: 21 February 2017 at 12:56pm
Wouldnt the logical thing to do if you are getting flash to get some bphs built or even pair them with the original turbo ones. Bunch of bphs , easy build not much wood lots of driver choices and do exactly what you want in a big stack,kick the breath out of your lungs.

Edit: What i would do, 6 double electrikal version ( so you get a bit more height ) es18bphs. You can always run only the upper 2 to 150-170hz and let the bottom ones take the punishing and lose a bit of honk. The stack would be nice height and width just for 4 floods. Fairly efficient and you can do it with lower wattage drivers.

One more edit lol, 750 is too much for those boxes imo.Negotiate it down.


Posted By: gen0me
Date Posted: 21 February 2017 at 1:02pm
Oh give a guy a rest
Originally posted by midas midas wrote:


As stated, Flash are not starter rig boxes. Who is going to set it all up for you, delays, levels of individual components? Not you obviously.

If I was looking for a starter rig the very simplest of places to look is dual 18 reflex and 12 inch reflex with 1.4 or 2 inch horn.


Whats the whole philosophy in setting delay?

Your brs will sound lovely on techno, hardcore, breakcore, acid, jungle, ragga

The price of making Nl8 is stupidly low to budget.

Obviously the parties are not for masses. They have to has some character boxes.


Posted By: Futendra
Date Posted: 21 February 2017 at 1:10pm
Originally posted by Sypa Sypa wrote:

Wouldnt the logical thing to do if you are getting flash to get some bphs built or even pair them with the original turbo ones. Bunch of bphs , easy build not much wood lots of driver choices and do exactly what you want in a big stack,kick the breath out of your lungs.

Edit: What i would do, 6 double electrikal version ( so you get a bit more height ) es18bphs. You can always run only the upper 2 to 150-170hz and let the bottom ones take the punishing and lose a bit of honk. The stack would be nice height and width just for 4 floods. Fairly efficient and you can do it with lower wattage drivers.

One more edit lol, 750 is too much for those boxes imo.Negotiate it down.





So building some of these? http://forum.speakerplans.com/uploads/10889/ES18-BPH__636_x_636_b.jpg" rel="nofollow - http://forum.speakerplans.com/uploads/10889/ES18-BPH__636_x_636_b.jpg

What are compatible budget drivers for them?


Posted By: Hvedstrup
Date Posted: 21 February 2017 at 1:11pm
Originally posted by gen0me gen0me wrote:

Oh give a guy a rest
Originally posted by midas midas wrote:


As stated, Flash are not starter rig boxes. Who is going to set it all up for you, delays, levels of individual components? Not you obviously.

If I was looking for a starter rig the very simplest of places to look is dual 18 reflex and 12 inch reflex with 1.4 or 2 inch horn.


Whats the whole philosophy in setting delay?

Your brs will sound lovely on techno, hardcore, breakcore, acid, jungle, ragga

The price of making Nl8 is stupidly low to budget.

Obviously the parties are not for masses. They have to has some character boxes.
 
Setting delays are essential to getting your rig to sound and perform as intended. If you are lucky it will sound ok without any fiddling with phase and delays but most of the time it sounds like shit.

Price of NL8? EP connectors are expensive as ! NL8's are cheap as chips.


Posted By: Sypa
Date Posted: 21 February 2017 at 1:24pm
Yes but the double version like this http://i25.servimg.com/u/f25/11/19/86/08/cais610.jpg" rel="nofollow - http://i25.servimg.com/u/f25/11/19/86/08/cais610.jpg
Double version pros: Looks better,adds some stability easier to rig a bit. Save a bit of wood :)
Double version con: heavier

Off the top of my head b&c 18pzb100, oberton 18xb700/900, pd 186...


Posted By: midas
Date Posted: 21 February 2017 at 1:46pm
I'm sure I have just seen 4 x tsw718's for sale....

-------------
In bass no one can hear you scream!


Posted By: Futendra
Date Posted: 21 February 2017 at 2:06pm
Originally posted by Sypa Sypa wrote:

Yes but the double version like this http://i25.servimg.com/u/f25/11/19/86/08/cais610.jpg" rel="nofollow - http://i25.servimg.com/u/f25/11/19/86/08/cais610.jpg
Double version pros: Looks better,adds some stability easier to rig a bit. Save a bit of wood :)
Double version con: heavier

Off the top of my head b&c 18pzb100, oberton 18xb700/900, pd 186...

Most of these are harder to find here in Belgium. Would the RCF LF18G401 be compatible? Otherwise, what do you think about building 186 horns instead?


Posted By: Sypa
Date Posted: 21 February 2017 at 3:30pm
Yea the rcf will work for sure. Dunno about 186 never heard them personally.


Posted By: Futendra
Date Posted: 21 February 2017 at 3:36pm
Hmm. I think building eight 186 horns will be better size-wise. It's down to es18bphs vs 186 horns. What are the pros and cons of both? I don't think we will nake double ones, so keep that in mind.


Posted By: bass*en*mass
Date Posted: 21 February 2017 at 6:11pm
how do you suppose/intend to stack 4 tops on those 8 subs?






Posted By: Speaker Sol
Date Posted: 21 February 2017 at 6:26pm
Originally posted by Futendra Futendra wrote:

Hmm. I think building eight 186 horns will be better size-wise. It's down to es18bphs vs 186 horns. What are the pros and cons of both? I don't think we will nake double ones, so keep that in mind.


The ES18 will reach 180hz with less honking than an 186. And imo Bandpass subs sound slightly better on Tekno.

186 will play lower. More SPL, bigger cabs (which for your application is probably better).



I understand what you want to do and why, I love a good Tekno rig. But I highly recommend you listen to some of the advice beinging given here. There are better top options and i have never heard a W-Bin I liked.

My advice 186 bins with different tops,

Or

Bandpass horns with the Turbo tops. Better to get turbo bins, but if you can't es18 is probably a good choice.


Posted By: Futendra
Date Posted: 21 February 2017 at 6:29pm
Originally posted by bass*en*mass bass*en*mass wrote:

how do you suppose/intend to stack 4 tops on those 8 subs?








Posted By: bass*en*mass
Date Posted: 21 February 2017 at 6:43pm
yeah, that might work but you`ll loose some lowend due to "worse" floor coupling imo + i think even 2:1 ratio will not offer the headroom/balance you need to match these Tops.

es18bph to 180hz? hmm, not with the usual heavy cone drivers used to gain some lowend, not in my books at least..Turbo used light cone drivers to enable the high xover for a reason.


Posted By: Futendra
Date Posted: 21 February 2017 at 6:45pm
Originally posted by Speaker Sol Speaker Sol wrote:


My advice 186 bins with different tops,

Or

Bandpass horns with the Turbo tops. Better to get turbo bins, but if you can't es18 is probably a good choice.


ES18's are way too small for the turbo tops... I can't get enough height with them.

What tops are easy to find and will do a great job with the 186 horns, thinking low-budget?


Posted By: bass*en*mass
Date Posted: 21 February 2017 at 7:18pm
tbh. Futendra, if i was you and in that scene i would first look whats common around yours and go for the same, simply said, from a business point of view, unless you find the usual setups lack sth. you want to cover, hence going for sth. "out of the ordinary"

There are way too many options one can go for that work well within certain budget/requirements, at the end you either "do it your ways" with all its pros/cons or join the common fashion and go for something easy to sell/rent in/cross hire.

I would say thats one of the main decisions you have to make first..
hobby or growing business?


Posted By: Sypa
Date Posted: 21 February 2017 at 8:22pm
Electrikal es18 is 63cm put three on their sides and a pallet and ur 2 meters high,not optimal but good.
2 186horns are 5 cm lower than that . Regarding the honk to 180hz i think the idea of playing the upper two only to 180, the bottom ones lets say 40-45-120ish can significantly help with that. But yeah you would need six es18 doubles( 12 drivers )  to get 4 tops on em, while you can do that with 6 186 horns.



Posted By: Futendra
Date Posted: 21 February 2017 at 9:01pm
Originally posted by Sypa Sypa wrote:

Electrikal es18 is 63cm put three on their sides and a pallet and ur 2 meters high,not optimal but good.
2 186horns are 5 cm lower than that . Regarding the honk to 180hz i think the idea of playing the upper two only to 180, the bottom ones lets say 40-45-120ish can significantly help with that. But yeah you would need six es18 doubles( 12 drivers )  to get 4 tops on em, while you can do that with 6 186 horns.


Yeah, indeed. Budget-wise the 186 horns will be a better decision. I will need 8, though.


Posted By: 4D
Date Posted: 21 February 2017 at 9:39pm
Originally posted by Futendra Futendra wrote:

Originally posted by bass*en*mass bass*en*mass wrote:

how do you suppose/intend to stack 4 tops on those 8 subs?








That is going to sound so wrong, imagine being poked in the ear with a sharp stick whilst someone drags a dead elephant over some rumble strip.

Flash was designed as a large arena system to be flown at height in large arrayed clusters.  Not stacked in a block for comb filter heaven. 

There is plenty of Floodlight still available, I suggest get on & build your subs get all your amps racks patch panels cables etc together meantime set a few searches on ebay etc & then wait for four floods to come on the market.   


-------------
DMZ. "The bass was intense. Girls were literally running up to stand next to the subs"


Posted By: Tedski
Date Posted: 21 February 2017 at 10:26pm
Originally posted by 4D 4D wrote:


That is going to sound so wrong, imagine being poked in the ear with a sharp stick whilst someone drags a dead elephant over some rumble strip  



LOLClap


Posted By: Futendra
Date Posted: 22 February 2017 at 2:29pm
Originally posted by 4D 4D wrote:


There is plenty of Floodlight still available, I suggest get on & build your subs get all your amps racks patch panels cables etc together meantime set a few searches on ebay etc & then wait for four floods to come on the market.   

The issue is that we don't have transportation to go to the UK, for example. Are there any known alternatives to a Floodlight that are widely available in Europe?


Posted By: jacethebase
Date Posted: 22 February 2017 at 3:03pm
There is loads of floodlight in Europe.

-------------
www.deltastarevents.com

www.dss-audio.co.uk


Posted By: Speaker Sol
Date Posted: 22 February 2017 at 9:42pm
The trouble with Floodlights (which are great tops) or any other 3 way top that only plays down to 180Hz is that there isn't really a bass bin that can play 40Hz-180Hz, even the Turbosound bins struggle with this task. Which means you end up having to run 5 way, which can be a bit of a pain and probably wouldn't suit your needs.

I think you maybe better of looking for tops that can play down to 120Hz. There are lots of options out there, I would recommend looking into a few options, picking out a bunch of cabs that will work for you, then keeping an eye out. 

In the mean time start building your 186 bins.

If you locate Tops you want and they are too far away to collect, arrange to have them put on a pallet and shipped out to you. It's not as expensive as you might think. I live in Ireland and have had nearly all the speakers I have ever owned shipped to me.

Some options that might suit you needs, this is just off top of my head, not sure on prices of some of this stuff. 

EAW  KF850 / KF650 / KF600 - Probably hard to find and i'm not sure what these go for on the second hand market. 

Turbosound TMS4/3/2 - Cabs are normally pretty cheap, but drivers can be pricey so check they are correct and working before parting with your cash.

Turbosound THL4 - I use these at the moment, lovely cab especially good at Tekno imo. very hard to find theis cab though.

Martin H3. 

Lots more options out there. 


Posted By: Futendra
Date Posted: 22 February 2017 at 11:57pm
Originally posted by Speaker Sol Speaker Sol wrote:

The trouble with Floodlights (which are great tops) or any other 3 way top that only plays down to 180Hz is that there isn't really a bass bin that can play 40Hz-180Hz, even the Turbosound bins struggle with this task. Which means you end up having to run 5 way, which can be a bit of a pain and probably wouldn't suit your needs.

I think you maybe better of looking for tops that can play down to 120Hz. There are lots of options out there, I would recommend looking into a few options, picking out a bunch of cabs that will work for you, then keeping an eye out. 

In the mean time start building your 186 bins.

If you locate Tops you want and they are too far away to collect, arrange to have them put on a pallet and shipped out to you. It's not as expensive as you might think. I live in Ireland and have had nearly all the speakers I have ever owned shipped to me.

Some options that might suit you needs, this is just off top of my head, not sure on prices of some of this stuff. 

EAW  KF850 / KF650 / KF600 - Probably hard to find and i'm not sure what these go for on the second hand market. 

Turbosound TMS4/3/2 - Cabs are normally pretty cheap, but drivers can be pricey so check they are correct and working before parting with your cash.

Turbosound THL4 - I use these at the moment, lovely cab especially good at Tekno imo. very hard to find theis cab though.

Martin H3. 

Lots more options out there. 

I have been looking into the TMS3 and 4, but I think they will be expensive in the long run (driver issues and such).

Damn those THL4's look good indeed! Is there anything DIY that comes close to the Turbosound THL4? I was also thinking about maybe making a couple of split MT102's, any thoughts about that?


Posted By: Speaker Sol
Date Posted: 23 February 2017 at 1:21am


Edited.



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