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TH-18 build

Printed From: Speakerplans.com
Category: Plans
Forum Name: Other plans
Forum Description: Discussion / Questions about all the other plans
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=98040
Printed Date: 18 October 2017 at 2:57am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: TH-18 build
Posted By: smitske96
Subject: TH-18 build
Date Posted: 12 March 2017 at 12:04am
Here are some build pics of my new TH-18 sub's.
Because the old topic wasn't appropriate for the TH-18's..

Side panels:

Nice internal view:

First one done:

Both done:

Paint job:



Replies:
Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 12 March 2017 at 12:37am
very cool. are you going to put grills on?


Posted By: smitske96
Date Posted: 12 March 2017 at 12:41am
Grills will be custom made (but that's gonna take a few weeks).


Posted By: smitske96
Date Posted: 14 March 2017 at 9:33pm
I assembled the cabs yesterday.





Posted By: rish
Date Posted: 15 March 2017 at 8:56am
Very nice. how do they sound?


Posted By: snowflake
Date Posted: 15 March 2017 at 10:11am
good stuff. same layout as danley TH118. have you used same external dimensions?


Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 15 March 2017 at 11:44am
Danley TH118 throat part does not look like that.

-------------
Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
www.mm-acoustics.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713


Posted By: snowflake
Date Posted: 15 March 2017 at 3:06pm
what does he do? letterbox or V?


Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 15 March 2017 at 4:21pm
these are the TH18 design by x0c1 on diyaudio i think.


Posted By: Speaker Sol
Date Posted: 15 March 2017 at 6:07pm
Nice job.
Looking real smart.

How do they sound.

I would love to see some measurments if you get the chance.


Posted By: smitske96
Date Posted: 15 March 2017 at 7:40pm
They are indeed the TH-18 from Xoc1 (with cone correction).

Doing measurements is on the agenda.
First I want to build two front loaded mid-highs (12/1.4).


Posted By: smitske96
Date Posted: 15 March 2017 at 7:42pm
Btw I hooked them up to a TSA 4-700 (I don't have anything else at the moment).
And they can be felt real easy ,with just 490 Watt on them.


Posted By: tv00
Date Posted: 20 March 2017 at 6:58pm
Why not build V2 that drops a bit lower and doesn't have the wasted space inside?


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www.facebook.com/babysoundsystem


Posted By: smitske96
Date Posted: 20 March 2017 at 9:21pm
Originally posted by tv00 tv00 wrote:

Why not build V2 that drops a bit lower and doesn't have the wasted space inside?


To be honest I actually didn't see the v2 version..

Although the triangle makes the m20 really solid (al is it a bit overkill).



The testcabinet for the mid/highs is planned next week. I am going to try the 12nw76, if it won't do the job I will look further for something else.


Posted By: tv00
Date Posted: 21 March 2017 at 10:45am
Uh, keep reading the x0c1 TH-18 thread , after the cone correction they end up by extending the horn to make the second bend close enough to the cone to become the cone correction, then they move the triangle also and add a bit of extension this way also.

Same has been made for Jbell SS15 (also a later mod I believe)
Then it all comes very close to Danleys subs


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www.facebook.com/babysoundsystem


Posted By: smitske96
Date Posted: 22 March 2017 at 8:18pm
I'm looking forward to do some measurements!
I've got a calibrated Behringer ECM8000 as a mic.


Posted By: smitske96
Date Posted: 05 April 2017 at 10:23pm
For the mid/high section I am probably going for the PM90 (diy mid high).
But not with the BMS.. In germany somebody used the RCF ND950 driver.

The RCF will save me allot of money, almost 600,-


Posted By: smitske96
Date Posted: 03 May 2017 at 8:22pm
Does anybody have experience with the BMS 2230 horn? someone offered me a pair of BMS 4592 drivers.
They would do the job for the PM90 but there aren't many suitable horns.

The 2230 can be used down to 700 Hz, so it would be on the edge..


Posted By: Teunos
Date Posted: 03 May 2017 at 8:34pm
I dont have any experience with the 2230.
I do however with the 2236, its larger 60x40 brother.

If you need the extension, there isnt really anything out there that can offer it at an affordable price.
(Big) 2'' CD horns are very rare in make, and probably one of the reasons why the PM90 uses the 1.4'' version instead of the 4592 (which is considerably cheaper).

Sound quality wise i would say the JBL 2380 i have sound a bit better, but they cant do what the 2236 can do down low. Saying that, i traded the 2236 for 2380 a while after i purchased the 2236 along with the BMS 4590 (since i didnt need the extreme extension the 2236 offer (down to 450), i cross the 4590 at ~800) , so if you want 2236 at a good price, i have a pair which is gathering dust.


-------------
Best regards,
Teun.

,,Diamonds are forever''


Posted By: smitske96
Date Posted: 03 May 2017 at 8:43pm
@Teunos

Thanks for the reply! Both the 2236 and JBl 2380 are to wide for my application.


If the 2230 won't do the job, I will look further for a pair of 4594 (and I know they are hard to find LOL)


Posted By: Teunos
Date Posted: 03 May 2017 at 10:17pm
Actually i meant 2385, huge mistake on my part.
2230 is 90*50, 2385 and 2236 are both 60*40

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Best regards,
Teun.

,,Diamonds are forever''


Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 04 May 2017 at 12:35am
What do you mean hard to find?

-------------
Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
www.mm-acoustics.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713


Posted By: Keen
Date Posted: 04 May 2017 at 9:11am
Originally posted by Teunos Teunos wrote:

 2230 is 90*50, 2385 and 2236 are both 60*40
He means size wise, not disp.


Posted By: Keen
Date Posted: 05 May 2017 at 12:19am
Originally posted by smitske96 smitske96 wrote:

Someone offered me a pair of BMS 4592 drivers for the PM90 but there aren't many suitable horns.
PH-642 
http://www.paudiothailand.com/pac/index.cfm/products/product/?id=553" rel="nofollow - http://www.paudiothailand.com/pac/index.cfm/products/product/?id=553


Posted By: smitske96
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 3:01pm
Finally did some testing today! 

Music quality was not the best, but good enough for some impressions. I have to say I'm not satisfied yet, it was clearly missing something. 
My guess wood be the bad music quality and not a good summation at the crossover point with the B1520's.

Tops: Behringer B1520 (at the moment I don't have any mid/highs ;D)
Amps: 2X DAP TAS 2400 (one for each TH-18) and a different amp for the B1520 which I don't recall..
processing: Xilica XP3060

Music was just from my phone... so not the best.
Next time I'm hoping to get the mid/highs ready, and to do some measurements with SMAART.


Posted By: Brutus
Date Posted: 29 May 2017 at 3:10pm
hi smitske,

u are welcome to drop by, and smaart your baby :)


Posted By: SouthwestCNC
Date Posted: 29 May 2017 at 3:45pm
Time alignment possibly? Found this to be an issue with the tham 12.


Posted By: smitske96
Date Posted: 29 May 2017 at 11:46pm
Originally posted by SouthwestCNC SouthwestCNC wrote:

Time alignment possibly? Found this to be an issue with the tham 12.

That was my first though also, but time being limited I couldn't get it right.
Now I am really hoping to have some time for the mid/high's. 
At the moment the "to-do-list" is VEEEEERRRRRYYY long LOL

Getting some training at time and phase alignment is on of them! This goal of the project is to have a nice sounding system, and I am also confident that can be doable. Ofcourse I have to learn lots of things, but that is never a bad thing!




Posted By: smitske96
Date Posted: 29 May 2017 at 11:48pm
Originally posted by Brutus Brutus wrote:

hi smitske,

u are welcome to drop by, and smaart your baby :)

Thanks for the offer! Smile I will remember it.


Posted By: smitske96
Date Posted: 03 September 2017 at 7:48pm
The cabinets are almost done (but are already in use). In the future the plan is for some other grilles (TH-18's also). The bottom bolts will be replaced with black ones.





Hopefully I have time to get started with the measuring part, but that will take some time.
I am also started with the next project (something like the d&b c4 cabinets).


Posted By: smitske96
Date Posted: 06 September 2017 at 7:57pm
Did some measuring today, and for the first time it's not to bad.


12NW76:
1200 Hz, 12dB/Oct butterworth
0,500 ms delay (was a guess)

DE800
1200 Hz, 12dB/Oct butterworth

Under 300 Hz it's really bumpy, but is very dependent of the position in the room

And another pic with the phase response.

measurements took place in a small room, so the plots are not fantastic.



Posted By: Teunos
Date Posted: 07 September 2017 at 10:10am
Originally posted by smitske96 smitske96 wrote:

Under 300 Hz it's really bumpy, but is very dependent of the position in the room. measurements took place in a small room, so the plots are not fantastic

Measurement looks totally unreliable. If you do measure in a small room, measure the speaker up close and on the ground, with mic on the ground as well. You canthen eq it reasonably flat and then measure further away above the ground. Average a few "further away" positions and then apply ONLY a low shelve to compensate for the difference in radiation area (half space vs full space). If you need to eq more, there a big chance you are trying to eq either room modes or reflections.

But of course its always best to measure outside.

-------------
Best regards,
Teun.

,,Diamonds are forever''


Posted By: gen0me
Date Posted: 07 September 2017 at 10:58am
What speakers are inside TH?

I would love to hear demo. Just not from the room


Posted By: smitske96
Date Posted: 07 September 2017 at 11:36am
Maybe I have some time to do outside measurements today. 

@gen0me

TH-18's are loaded with the 18SW115-8 and later on with the 4 Ohm version (because there is a QSC PL380 on the way Smile). Tops are loaded with; B&C 12NW76 and the DE800 on a ME90 horn. 

For now the mid/highs are run by two DAP TAS 2400 amps with a XP3060 for the processing.

And SMAART training is in the agenda (October).


Posted By: gen0me
Date Posted: 07 September 2017 at 12:12pm
Seems like very solid setup
12NW76 is closed or br?
Check out the hf horn placement.


Posted By: smitske96
Date Posted: 07 September 2017 at 1:49pm
Br port is in the back


Posted By: smitske96
Date Posted: 07 September 2017 at 4:36pm
With some eq on a polemount:

 


Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 08 September 2017 at 12:58am
If i were you, i would use 24db/oct BW. Not 12. It will require reversing polarity on the hf too.

-------------
Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
www.mm-acoustics.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713


Posted By: smitske96
Date Posted: 19 September 2017 at 1:15pm
I'm also still looking for nice professional grill's, but they are indeed hard to get.
Does anyone have a nice adress? I'm looking for honey cone cutouts (or round if not possible).

The plan is to have te same grill for the TH-18 and the mid/high.


Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 19 September 2017 at 2:38pm
Originally posted by smitske96 smitske96 wrote:

Originally posted by SouthwestCNC SouthwestCNC wrote:

Time alignment possibly? Found this to be an issue with the tham 12.


That was my first though also, but time being limited I couldn't get it right.
Now I am really hoping to have some time for the mid/high's. 
At the moment the "to-do-list" is VEEEEERRRRRYYY long LOL

Getting some training at time and phase alignment is on of them! This goal of the project is to have a nice sounding system, and I am also confident that can be doable. Ofcourse I have to learn lots of things, but that is never a bad thing!




Timo Beckman has a new course starting soon I believe.

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http://www.neuronproaudio.co.uk" rel="nofollow - http://www.neuronproaudio.co.uk


Posted By: all bass
Date Posted: 19 September 2017 at 4:10pm
Originally posted by smitske96 smitske96 wrote:

I'm also still looking for nice professional grill's, but they are indeed hard to get.
Does anyone have a nice adress? I'm looking for honey cone cutouts (or round if not possible).

The plan is to have te same grill for the TH-18 and the mid/high.

http://www.rabe-feinblechbearbeitung.de/schutzgitter.html" rel="nofollow - Raabe

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Get your free line array plans here!


Posted By: smitske96
Date Posted: 27 September 2017 at 11:09am
@all bass

Thanks for the link!Wink

I also had some time to do a outside measurement, but couldn't do al the things I wanted to do..


They sound much better already, next step will be measuring them with the TH18's.
After that (will take some time)  a SMAART course by probably Timo Beckman.


Posted By: smitske96
Date Posted: 03 October 2017 at 7:12pm
I also started with designing a dual 15 cab for on top of the TH18 or only with the mid-highs.
It has tot have a small frontal area (as wide as the TH18) so 571x571 is the target.

I simulated it as a reflex cab, but I can imagine that there can be a bandpass effect?
Cab is tuned at 43 Hz, and I am planning to go with a push pull configuration.

Topview:

(line's are a little bit crooked because of the conversion by dropbox)

This is still a quick sketch and with this arrangement, it will be a little hard with fitting the drivers.


Posted By: _djk_
Date Posted: 03 October 2017 at 7:50pm
There will be a small peak corresponding to the depth of the cavity, probably around 160hz~180hz.


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djk


Posted By: Xoc1
Date Posted: 03 October 2017 at 9:16pm
I think that depending on the requncy range you are planning for the mid range cab the slot loading will add a peak just where you dont want it.
I cant help thinking that a more gentle angle might work better like a manifold speaker loading (an inverted piramid baffle with the 2  15inch drivers on opposing sides of the piramid)


-------------
Regards Xoc1


Posted By: _djk_
Date Posted: 03 October 2017 at 10:25pm
"I think that depending on the requncy range you are planning for the mid range cab the slot loading will add a peak just where you dont want it."

So all Cubo subs are junk?

Do you not own an EQ?

The peak is less than what you will see on a small folded horn (or a Cubo).


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djk


Posted By: smitske96
Date Posted: 04 October 2017 at 12:35pm
The range will be 40/45 ish to 140/150 ish. 
Maybe get rid of the two front parts that are 10 cm wide, then the slot will be a little bit shorter.



Posted By: gen0me
Date Posted: 04 October 2017 at 1:45pm
Dont Cubos play everything "on the same note"?

If front is square you could place ports horizontaly and speakers vertically if they dont fit. Or use tube ports.


Posted By: mini-mad
Date Posted: 04 October 2017 at 3:01pm
Noooo.... cubos are more musical then That! My 15s played nicely when I was using them



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If it sounds like a gorilla is trying to escape, turn it down.


Posted By: Xoc1
Date Posted: 04 October 2017 at 8:35pm
Originally posted by _djk_ _djk_ wrote:

So all Cubo subs are junk?
Do you not own an EQ?

I don't even know where the Cubo comment comes from? Nothing wrong with Cubos - I even helped draw up the Cubo Sub plans...
When I designed the TH18 I was trying to aim for an extended mid response, to make it easier to match different mid top cabinets.
Regardless not many builders seen to run them above 100hz anyway, which means that some mid tops are struggling to match them. Smitske said he was trying to design some cabs to fit on top of the TH18 boxes and maybe only for the mid highs - Depending on the bandwidth he wanted, I don't see the sense in designing a cab that would have a peak in the top of the passband it was being used in and having to EQ it back out.

Do I own an EQ?
Well I have an well sorted Ecler Sclat 100 for DJ use.
A Soundcraft UI 24R is my current live sound mixer, and a I run a tweaked DCX2496 on my PA.  Is that enough EQ for you?
- Xoc1



-------------
Regards Xoc1


Posted By: gen0me
Date Posted: 05 October 2017 at 5:39pm
I was asking about Cubo kicks
They are similar to the topic box.


Posted By: _djk_
Date Posted: 05 October 2017 at 10:08pm
" don't even know where the Cubo comment comes from?"

The Cubo designs all have much worse peaks near the upper end of the passband, yet no one complains about them.


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djk


Posted By: smitske96
Date Posted: 06 October 2017 at 3:19pm
I know that one of the goals for the TH-18 was to reach 100 Hz, but at full output, my own mid/highs lack a bit of low. Just the 80 to 100 Hz punch isn't there (att the max of the system). 

I also need a smaller cab for the smaller gigs, sure I can build a random cabinet, but it would be nice if the hole system could be used together. 
Just a single 15" reflex is still an option, tuned at 40 ish Hz or so.



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