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Suggested 1" Comp's for use 5khz-18khz

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Topic: Suggested 1" Comp's for use 5khz-18khz
Posted By: levyte357-
Subject: Suggested 1" Comp's for use 5khz-18khz
Date Posted: 14 March 2017 at 10:56am
Hearing few line arrays, has me on a pet project.

Obviously LA's have dedicated custom drivers, but considering diy option with multiple 1" drivers per mid, to achieve exceptional 13.6k+.

Suggestions, opinions, makes, models.


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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.



Replies:
Posted By: nickyburnell
Date Posted: 14 March 2017 at 11:11am
Before you throw ££ at supposed high end stuff listen to Beyma CD10.

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It's everything, not everythink!


Posted By: corell
Date Posted: 14 March 2017 at 11:56am
BMS 4540ND or 4538. Beyma CD10 (Fe and Nd) is also a very good hint! If you want to spend that sort of money, 18sound NSD1095 is the best super HF i have heard...


Posted By: bassdesigner
Date Posted: 14 March 2017 at 11:59am
RCF nd350 also very good


Posted By: nickyburnell
Date Posted: 14 March 2017 at 12:29pm
Originally posted by bassdesigner bassdesigner wrote:

RCF nd350 also very good


Agreed


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It's everything, not everythink!


Posted By: Earplug
Date Posted: 14 March 2017 at 1:12pm
How do you plan to couple the drivers? A wave guide, or just standard horns? What you use is just, if not more important than the drivers!




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Earplugs Are For Wimps!


Posted By: corell
Date Posted: 14 March 2017 at 1:16pm
you could just go with BMS 4505 as this is possibly the best off the shelf line source waveformer+driver.


Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 14 March 2017 at 1:43pm
Originally posted by Earplug Earplug wrote:

How do you plan to couple the drivers? A wave guide, or just standard horns? What you use is just, if not more important than the drivers!


What would you suggest?

Tried twin 1" to 2" adaptor, was not impressed with results.
Was thinking 1x driver per horn, arrayed vertically.

Like the sound of BMS 4524, but not sure if that would provide sufficient SPL.

My top contenders where B&C DE25 or DE250, on B&C ME45 horns.

Was told Celestion 9040 1" horns, sound decent with many 1" drivers.


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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.


Posted By: Teunos
Date Posted: 14 March 2017 at 2:34pm
Part of the reason arrays can sound good is due to the use of the high number of compression drivers. Compression drivers generate significantly more distortion at higher power than at low power (typically a factor 10 more going from 1W to 10W).
If you can produce the required SPL with 10 drivers pushing 1 Watt of electrical power versus 1 driver pushing 10 watts, the difference in sound quality can be significant.

But as is the case with everything, there is never a free lunch.
Arraying multiple drivers required extreme attention to prevent comb-filtering. If you simply stack multiple drivers on conventional horns together it is very likely the results will not be better than when you would just have used 1 driver on a proper horn (and when i say proper i mean one without diffraction throat).

Like Corell said, the BMS 4505 is a perfect driver, with the waveguide attached directly to the ring radiator diaphragm itself. 


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Best regards,
Teun.


Posted By: bob4
Date Posted: 14 March 2017 at 3:16pm
Originally posted by corell corell wrote:

you could just go with BMS 4505 as this is possibly the best off the shelf line source waveformer+driver.

are there any off-the-shelf waveguides available for these?


Posted By: Conanski
Date Posted: 14 March 2017 at 5:49pm
Originally posted by bob4 bob4 wrote:

are there any off-the-shelf waveguides available for these?


google line array wave guide..


Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 14 March 2017 at 5:55pm
Originally posted by Conanski Conanski wrote:

Originally posted by bob4 bob4 wrote:

are there any off-the-shelf waveguides available for these?


google line array wave guide..


And then find how much more it takes than that to make an array that works…


Posted By: djkeet
Date Posted: 14 March 2017 at 7:13pm
I've got the CD10'S but if I could afford them I would go for the Beyma cp380m still would need to sit above a good 2''

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Soundbite


Posted By: Earplug
Date Posted: 14 March 2017 at 7:19pm
Originally posted by levyte357- levyte357- wrote:

Originally posted by Earplug Earplug wrote:

How do you plan to couple the drivers? A wave guide, or just standard horns? What you use is just, if not more important than the drivers!


What would you suggest?

Tried twin 1" to 2" adaptor, was not impressed with results.
Was thinking 1x driver per horn, arrayed vertically.

Like the sound of BMS 4524, but not sure if that would provide sufficient SPL.

My top contenders where B&C DE25 or DE250, on B&C ME45 horns.

Was told Celestion 9040 1" horns, sound decent with many 1" drivers.



I did a lot of tests with a carpenter here who wanted to build a waveguide. Needless to say, it´s not simple.

Unless you have the patience - and resourses, I´d go with 2 x 90º x 40º horns arrayed vertically as you say.

Drivers - not sure. Beyma make some very nice drivers, as do BMS. A matter of budget and taste, really.









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Earplugs Are For Wimps!


Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 14 March 2017 at 7:37pm
Vertical arraying of 90x40 degree horns is just a bad compromise.
You need proper line array wgs. No other way around it.
Now i am not sure what your idea is here, and how you plan on using the rest of the components, but that will largely determine what you actually need. 
I dont find many line array boxes where hf drivers are cut so high. Even if they are 3 way the hf is the part that is the most crucial.
The box you have heard, the D&B V8 has two 2.5 inch vc hf drivers cut at around 1khz.


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Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
www.mm-acoustics.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713


Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 14 March 2017 at 8:12pm
Are you going to be using an actual array? Like more than four boxes in a flown hang?

If not what you need is wide dispersion point source.


Posted By: nickyburnell
Date Posted: 14 March 2017 at 8:47pm
Originally posted by djkeet djkeet wrote:

I've got the CD10'S but if I could afford them I would go for the Beyma cp380m still would need to sit above a good 2''


Do they still make 380m? Bloody lovely driver

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It's everything, not everythink!


Posted By: djkeet
Date Posted: 14 March 2017 at 10:30pm
Yes Blue Aran and Thomanns still stock them and dia's as well

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Soundbite


Posted By: Elliot Thompson
Date Posted: 14 March 2017 at 10:52pm

No matter how good of a compression driver you buy, it is the integration of the cone driver with the compression driver that offers the clarity of a line-array. That will be your biggest challenge for the majority of the cone drivers used in off the shelf designs are proprietary designed.    

Best Regards, 

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Elliot Thompson


Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 15 March 2017 at 12:57am
Originally posted by Elliot Thompson Elliot Thompson wrote:




<p ="Msonormal">No matter how good of a compression driver you buy, it is
the integration of the cone driver with the compression driver that offers the
clarity of a line-array. That will be your biggest challenge for the majority
of the cone drivers used in off the shelf designs are proprietary designed. <span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span><span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span><span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>

Best Regards, 


And have a lot of time put into the design of the phase plates and physical integration with the waveguide exit. Getting pattern control consistent without severe lobing throughout the vocal range is not so easy - and a lot of it also comes down to having a highly skilled crossover design, both passive and active. Out of band EQ and small bits of FIR are common in most modern boxes, as is dynamic EQ or filter adjustment too.

If you're not doing shows of over 1500 people, you don't need a line array.


Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 15 March 2017 at 10:13am
Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

If you're not doing shows of over 1500 people, you don't need a line array.


This and previous technical statements, has brought things back to reality..

So I guess we're now discussing, recommended 1" drivers and horns, for stacking vertically in a cab, above 2", for 8khz up.




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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.


Posted By: MattStolton
Date Posted: 15 March 2017 at 12:37pm
Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

If you're not doing shows of over 1500 people, you don't need a line array.
For so many reasons...

Put simply, to pay for a long enough hang to be put in place, to actually be effective (say 12 boxes per side minimum) requires enough tickets sales to pay for it, and enough height and space to hang that many boxes, as well as a big enough (wide enough) stage to put enough subs in to keep up!

Line arrays of 6 boxes, or less, a side, are not line arrays. They are simply six boxes (of narrow vertical dispersion) stacked on top of each other. At high frequencies you will get some coupling and cylindrical wavefront effect (i.e. breaks inverse square law, which is the whole point), but at mid frequencies, you don't get cylindrical wavefront, so volume drops off as a function of inverse square law.

So HF, 30m back from stack has reduced by 3dB per doubling of distance, whereas the MF and bass has reduced by 6dB per doubling of distance. (ignoring reverberant far field contributions)


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Matt Stolton - Technical Director (!!!) - http://www.wildingsound.co.uk" rel="nofollow - Wilding Sound Ltd
"Sparkius metiretur vestra" - "Meter Your Mains"


Posted By: wires
Date Posted: 15 March 2017 at 1:15pm
Originally posted by levyte357- levyte357- wrote:

Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

If you're not doing shows of over 1500 people, you don't need a line array.


This and previous technical statements, has brought things back to reality..

So I guess we're now discussing, recommended 1" drivers and horns, for stacking vertically in a cab, above 2", for 8khz up.




If you are confident in designing line array boxes, Have you thought about synergy horns and the like? Multiple drivers in a source that wouldn't require a massive line.
Still not an easy build.

Danely reggae system :)


Posted By: corell
Date Posted: 15 March 2017 at 1:37pm
Synergy horns still have one single HF, so not much more than ~117-120 dB max until 10%THD 8kHz up...
Whats the reason not to use BMS 4505 other than its price?


Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 15 March 2017 at 1:48pm
Originally posted by corell corell wrote:


Whats the reason not to use BMS 4505 other than its price?


http://www.lean-business.co.uk/eshop/bms-4505nd-5-neodymium-planar-wave-driver-175-vc-80-w-aes-113-db-8-ohm-p-2639.html?zenid=6323d142ede68b06901f417d39ce48a0" rel="nofollow - http://www.lean-business.co.uk/eshop/bms-4505nd-5-neodymium-planar-wave-driver-175-vc-80-w-aes-113-db-8-ohm-p-2639.html?zenid=6323d142ede68b06901f417d39ce48a0

£213 GBP each, soon stacks up, if 2x driver per mid cab, 4x mid cabs.




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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.


Posted By: snowflake
Date Posted: 15 March 2017 at 2:36pm
Originally posted by corell corell wrote:

Synergy horns still have one single HF, so not much more than ~117-120 dB max until 10%THD 8kHz up...
Whats the reason not to use BMS 4505 other than its price?


no, beause the synergy horns are a conical horn there is far less throat distortion because of the higher flare rate. with an exponential horn the air starts distorting because of adiabatic compression.


Posted By: _Natty_
Date Posted: 15 March 2017 at 3:17pm
my vote is for the mighty b&c de250


Posted By: Earplug
Date Posted: 15 March 2017 at 4:58pm
Just buy some JBL VRX - 3 x 1" drivers.  Smile




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Earplugs Are For Wimps!


Posted By: MattStolton
Date Posted: 15 March 2017 at 5:02pm
Originally posted by Earplug Earplug wrote:

Just buy some JBL VRX - 3 x 1" drivers.  Smile


Ouch!

Last term I heard a VRX rig, it sounded a little "shrill" to say the very least! Wink


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Matt Stolton - Technical Director (!!!) - http://www.wildingsound.co.uk" rel="nofollow - Wilding Sound Ltd
"Sparkius metiretur vestra" - "Meter Your Mains"


Posted By: bob4
Date Posted: 15 March 2017 at 5:40pm
Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

Originally posted by Conanski Conanski wrote:

Originally posted by bob4 bob4 wrote:

are there any off-the-shelf waveguides available for these?


google line array wave guide..


And then find how much more it takes than that to make an array that works…

guys, I didn't ask for a "line array wave guide" specifically. Wink




Posted By: Earplug
Date Posted: 15 March 2017 at 7:29pm
Originally posted by MattStolton MattStolton wrote:

Originally posted by Earplug Earplug wrote:

Just buy some JBL VRX - 3 x 1" drivers.  Smile


Ouch!

Last term I heard a VRX rig, it sounded a little "shrill" to say the very least! Wink



Like a lot of JBL stuff, very top heavy, but some people seem to like that. I did a gig a while ago where the group brought a couple of VRX 932LAP´s and asked me to wire them in as side fills! Talk about shrill. I suppose they'd never heard about in-ears.    LOL

 


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Earplugs Are For Wimps!


Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 15 March 2017 at 7:45pm
Originally posted by MattStolton MattStolton wrote:

Originally posted by Earplug Earplug wrote:

Just buy some JBL VRX - 3 x 1" drivers.  Smile



Ouch!

Last term I heard a VRX rig, it sounded a little "shrill" to say the very least! Wink


You seem to have mis spelled "complete and uttter dog shite" there Matt


Posted By: nickyburnell
Date Posted: 15 March 2017 at 9:18pm
Originally posted by djkeet djkeet wrote:

Yes Blue Aran and Thomanns still stock them and dia's as well


These (cp380) can be found lurking in Mach 1x15 cabs. The MDF ones with the silly rear protruding handles that snap off. eBay bargains sometimes


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It's everything, not everythink!


Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 16 March 2017 at 10:59am
Originally posted by nickyburnell nickyburnell wrote:

Originally posted by djkeet djkeet wrote:

Yes Blue Aran and Thomanns still stock them and dia's as well


These (cp380) can be found lurking in Mach 1x15 cabs. The MDF ones with the silly rear protruding handles that snap off. eBay bargains sometimes


Beyma actually have some 1.4" drivers, that according to response graphs, have better 12-18k, than the CP380.




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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.


Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 16 March 2017 at 1:35pm
Top end is very dependent on the horn used.
Wider the horn dispersion, better the top end. No throw dough.
CD horns also suffers at the very top end, but provide most even dispersion.
Tractrix horns offers best on axis top end, but not to the rest of dispersion pattern.
You need to stop looking at specification graphs, unless you plan on using the same horn measurements were made with.


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Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
www.mm-acoustics.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713


Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 16 March 2017 at 2:15pm
Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

You need to stop looking at specification graphs, unless you plan on using the same horn measurements were made with.


There is much to gain, from using same horn, measurements made with..

There are few exceptions, like B&C ME60, which sounds immaculate with Beyma 2" drivers.


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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.


Posted By: MattStolton
Date Posted: 16 March 2017 at 3:56pm
Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

Originally posted by MattStolton MattStolton wrote:

Originally posted by Earplug Earplug wrote:

Just buy some JBL VRX - 3 x 1" drivers.  Smile



Ouch!

Last term I heard a VRX rig, it sounded a little "shrill" to say the very least! Wink


You seem to have mis spelled "complete and uttter dog shite" there Matt
As a SoundTech account holder, I was trying to be "diplomatic"!

But yes, proper nasty IMHO. Jumping on the line array band wagon, to cater for the mis-informed masses that think that two boxes can make a line array, but doing it ohh so badly. Bizarre as the accompanying subs (VRX918SP) do what they claim to do, and are quite competent for the price. But the VRX932LA (P) are "harsh". Please feel free to correct my spelling to your own preference.

Of all those fixed angle "array" boxes of that price point, the only ones I like are the QSC KLA. I can work with those quite happily, 2 on sticks, sitting on top of a KLA18, job done for many simple jobs.


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Matt Stolton - Technical Director (!!!) - http://www.wildingsound.co.uk" rel="nofollow - Wilding Sound Ltd
"Sparkius metiretur vestra" - "Meter Your Mains"


Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 16 March 2017 at 4:23pm
Still a point source gig though eh?


Posted By: MattStolton
Date Posted: 16 March 2017 at 4:36pm
Too right!

I'm not so much into willy waving, that I can't freely admit, most of the crap I do is 1x12" on a stick conference work.

To me 400 peeps in front of a band stage is plenty enough! Couple of subs, couple of PS Mid tops each side, job done. Quick in, quick out, sounds enough, get paid, find beer tent. Simple?

And all in a 3.5T, so don't need O license head aches.

Much as I would love to justify willy waving and owning a 2x24 hang LA, with enough subs and truss to do it justice, not my bread and butter work.

Give me 800 bored council employees, listening to their masters orate about visions of the future, using just 6 x 1x12", 6 amp channels and LMS for delays, GLD112 for wank value, couple of mics on stalks on a lectern, and a racked box of radio mics. Build is less than 1.5 hrs, get out is 45-1hr, 2 blokes on full day rate, earns a simple and worry free existence. The head ache is sorting the powerpoints at the last minute, or half way through the presentation.

On jobs like that, I have off loaded, and in the pub for 9pm!

So, yes, long live point source.....


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Matt Stolton - Technical Director (!!!) - http://www.wildingsound.co.uk" rel="nofollow - Wilding Sound Ltd
"Sparkius metiretur vestra" - "Meter Your Mains"


Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 16 March 2017 at 7:15pm
Originally posted by levyte357- levyte357- wrote:

Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

You need to stop looking at specification graphs, unless you plan on using the same horn measurements were made with.


There is much to gain, from using same horn, measurements made with..

There are few exceptions, like B&C ME60, which sounds immaculate with Beyma 2" drivers.

Horrible with the BMS coax. Simply worst horn for those drivers ever.


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Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
www.mm-acoustics.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713


Posted By: I-shen Soundboy
Date Posted: 16 March 2017 at 9:20pm
Originally posted by MattStolton MattStolton wrote:

...800 bored council employees, listening to their masters orate about visions of the future

So, a sound engineer's life isn't always one non stop high volume cocaine fuelled orgy of sex, drugs & rock'n'roll? I'm disappointed...

At least they get to hear it in the 'Stow Assembly Rooms, that must be a gorgeous venue to work in. Some of us get to peer over an eighth floor balcony and strain to hear anything from our lords and masters in an echoey atrium with a few speakers on sticks dotted on different floors.


Posted By: MattStolton
Date Posted: 17 March 2017 at 10:15am
Originally posted by I-shen Soundboy I-shen Soundboy wrote:

'Stow Assembly Rooms, that must be a gorgeous venue to work in.
Acoustically, it is surprisingly challenging, and despite treatment, an RT60 of over 1 second. Basically the treatment wasn't thick enough, despite around 60% coverage!

You can hear the difference that drawing the window's curtains makes!

In terms of kit, back in the 70's it had some money sploshed on it, Strand 48A/B/C/D desk, and proper old skool dimmers, and a plethora of strand luminaires. Not wrong for a stage of its size, approx 11m wide by 7m deep.

Sadly, except for the occasional relamp, seemingly annually, all rather tired.

Electrically, you either have the dimmers powered, or via a decrepit changeover switch which requires a broom handle to fully engage the terminals, or 3Ph 125A in wings. There is a 1Ph 63A available for guest stuff. Found at the back of the room a 3Ph 63A, but wired in 10mm2 T&E, allegedly "clean". On big shows the incoming heads ooze melted plastic residue onto the floor in the electrical intake room.

The PA system is equally knackered, and features some old 4x10 columns, a Wilding Powersound 2x12 and 1x12 a side, and a celestion SR under balcony fill, with no time alignment. After 20 years the Wilding Powersound Amplifiers, hand built by us, ran out of spares, and were "upgraded" to 5 x Crown XLS1500. Mewh. 24 Ch LX7 on FOH, but only 16/4 tie lines to stage, with a mix of non working and noisey cores, and numerous inverted 2/3 mic lines. Even has the tip of a 1/4" jack plug stuck in its headphone out, rendering that awkward, but no money to pay for it to be serviced.

It does feature quite a nice IR loop system, which does give very good coverage, but never gets used.

In house screen is a 4:3 10x7.5ish fast fold, that has seen better days, and the surround kit, is a different colour to the main tabs. Looks piss poor, and the projector is old and 4:3.

Architecturally, beautiful, although the only real money spent in the last 10 years was a splosh of paint ahead of a visit by HRH QE2. Acoustically-manageable, technically-tired.

Typical council funded (meaning first to suffer budget cut) venue.


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Matt Stolton - Technical Director (!!!) - http://www.wildingsound.co.uk" rel="nofollow - Wilding Sound Ltd
"Sparkius metiretur vestra" - "Meter Your Mains"


Posted By: I-shen Soundboy
Date Posted: 17 March 2017 at 1:52pm
Didn't know you did the PA, but I doubt Hawkwind used it when I saw them there last 😵

Do the council rent it out for a pittance to locals? I remember an all-dayer in Shoreditch town hall where the council's Sparky's​ overtime cost more than the venue hire. That's a council service I'd use.

It's one of the few London venues that doesn't have flats built all around, so they might escape the worst of the noise complaints.
With a decent PA.


Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 17 March 2017 at 2:04pm
So, can we get back to desirable 1" comps and their horn flares now !?




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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.


Posted By: I-shen Soundboy
Date Posted: 17 March 2017 at 2:41pm
Absolutely, and continuing Marjan's insight into bad horn pairings, I'm looking at a pile of ME45 90x40 horns and concerned how well they work with BMS 4550s, of which I have a similar pile. They both appear to be of similar chunkiness, and a test rig makes noises...

Any experiential insight into this pairing, or do I just suck it and see?


Posted By: corell
Date Posted: 17 March 2017 at 3:37pm
The ME45 horizontal coverage goes from < 40° to 120° plus it will suffer from "pattern flip" badly, as it is much more wide than high...



Posted By: MattStolton
Date Posted: 17 March 2017 at 4:02pm
Originally posted by I-shen Soundboy I-shen Soundboy wrote:

Do the council rent it out for a pittance to locals?
8 Hours (i.e. get in, event, get out, all within 8 hours) is Mon-Thurs is £2450, Fri-Sun £4900.

Extra hours are M-Th £265, F-Su £550.

All are more if it is a Bank Holiday. And July-Aug (Peak wedding season), minimum 12hr bookings.

But the balcony is free if you book any of the above!!

And all plus corkage.....corkage attracts VAT.

And all plus "technical support".....If your unlucky that could be me!

Chingford AH has a relatively better PA system, sort of working lights, and is half the cost. However, noise limiter (and door contacts) that cuts power is present, as well as neighbours who do scream and shout. Unless you know where the unswitched power is....

But, yes, if your doing anything more than a speech to the assembled masses, bring your own rig.


-------------
Matt Stolton - Technical Director (!!!) - http://www.wildingsound.co.uk" rel="nofollow - Wilding Sound Ltd
"Sparkius metiretur vestra" - "Meter Your Mains"


Posted By: I-shen Soundboy
Date Posted: 17 March 2017 at 4:12pm
Thanks for the opinion: I guess chunkiness is no indication of quality then. Should have gone with Mr Wilkes' recommendation for the 4550s.

Do the characteristics you describe apply to similarly dimensioned 90x40 exponential flares? I've suspected they're an engineering compromise towards a 2D audience plane and a divergence from the "ideal" shape.


Posted By: I-shen Soundboy
Date Posted: 17 March 2017 at 4:25pm
Originally posted by MattStolton MattStolton wrote:

Originally posted by I-shen Soundboy I-shen Soundboy wrote:

Do the council rent it out for a pittance to locals?

8 Hours (i.e. get in, event, get out, all within 8 hours) is Mon-Thurs is £2450, Fri-Sun £4900

Ouch, hardly "community" rates; can't compete with the wedding industry.


Posted By: APC321
Date Posted: 17 March 2017 at 5:02pm
Has anybody done a direct comparison between the Beyma CP380m and the Beyma CD10Fe?


Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 17 March 2017 at 5:16pm
Originally posted by I-shen Soundboy I-shen Soundboy wrote:

Thanks for the opinion: I guess chunkiness is no indication of quality then. Should have gone with Mr Wilkes' recommendation for the 4550s.

Do the characteristics you describe apply to similarly dimensioned 90x40 exponential flares? I've suspected they're an engineering compromise towards a 2D audience plane and a divergence from the "ideal" shape.

What i found is that BMS does not like horns that has a slot in the first part.
They love ones that expands from the throat.


-------------
Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
www.mm-acoustics.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713


Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 17 March 2017 at 5:51pm
Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

Originally posted by I-shen Soundboy I-shen Soundboy wrote:

Thanks for the opinion: I guess chunkiness is no indication of quality then. Should have gone with Mr Wilkes' recommendation for the 4550s.

Do the characteristics you describe apply to similarly dimensioned 90x40 exponential flares? I've suspected they're an engineering compromise towards a 2D audience plane and a divergence from the "ideal" shape.


What i found is that BMS does not like horns that has a slot in the first part.
They love ones that expands from the throat.


Did Tony W used to recommend Celestial 9040, for the BMS 4524?

Would only use that as a "Tweeter", so to speak, but horn is very bulky.

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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.


Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 17 March 2017 at 5:59pm
Cant remember. But the smallest Faital one will for sure sound lovely.

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Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
www.mm-acoustics.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713


Posted By: I-shen Soundboy
Date Posted: 17 March 2017 at 6:54pm
Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

What i found is that BMS does not like horns that has a slot in the first part.
They love ones that expands from the throat.


Thanks, that's the sort of rule-of-thumb I can work with.
It rules out the B&C ME45, which has a very pronounced slot as the first of its three distinct flare angles.

Oh well, they were cheap...


Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 17 March 2017 at 7:30pm
Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

Cant remember. But the smallest Faital one will for sure sound lovely.


For the price those drivers are really damn good



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