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Tannoy VQ60 and VS218DR

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URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=98098
Printed Date: 28 March 2024 at 7:07pm
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Topic: Tannoy VQ60 and VS218DR
Posted By: Hvedstrup
Subject: Tannoy VQ60 and VS218DR
Date Posted: 20 March 2017 at 6:16am
Hi all 

I just made a impulsive buy of some very cheap Tannoy. It's 2x VQ60 and 2x VS218DR and im picking it up later this week.

Music "support" aren't really helping in supplying a preset for this combo even though i have the correct Lin ea Research DSP and i can only find the VQ60 preset in the manual without the sub. The boxes are in the Lake load library but all settings are hidden so can't extract them from here.  

Anyone has the preset/settings for this exact system?

Any experience with these boxes? On paper they look great but searching online gives mixed reviews. 



Replies:
Posted By: Finjby
Date Posted: 20 March 2017 at 11:49am
I do feel for you with the 'support' from music group.
I have had similar experience recently with Midas and Turbo spares/info.
They seem quick to introduce new stuff, but not so hot on supporting the legacy of the brands they constantly brag about.
Hopefully someone on this forum has the settings to offer you.

I have used the VQ60 at the Waterfront in Norwich a few years back.  They have similar (separate processing and amps - not the active VQnet stuff), and were having discussions with sales rep at the time to obtain the correct/better presets.  
They had the 2x18 / 2x15 / 2x vq60 per side configuration.
The first year i used it there it sounded good.... the following year it sounded amazing!  
I think there were issues at the time when Lake/Lab joined the party and there was a rush to update to use FIR settings vs. the IIR presets supplied when it was installed.
I'm not sure what they ended up doing, but maybe try and contact the tech staff at the venue?

To reassure you about your purchase though, I must mention that the Norwich VQ system replaced 3 stacks a side of KF850/SB850.   And in my opinion, it walked all over it!
The vocal headroom and clarity from the Tannoy compared to the 'industry-standard rider box' made me realise that coaxial compression drivers were the future.

I really hope you get the results you are after, tuned correctly its a great system.


Posted By: Hvedstrup
Date Posted: 21 March 2017 at 4:11pm
Ok, thanks for the info. 

Do you know how to contact the Waterfront? 

Can't really seem to find anything online besides ticket sales. 


Posted By: Hvedstrup
Date Posted: 28 March 2017 at 8:19am
One of the boxes designers contacted me and sorted it all out.

Very nice. 


Posted By: Hvedstrup
Date Posted: 30 March 2017 at 10:23am
Quick update.

After getting incontact with one of the designers and getting the newest presets for the OEM Linea Research that Tannoy use i fired up the system for the first time. I can only say WOW! This system rocks. Loud as hell and very detailed and hifi'ish. Seriously impressed. 

Cons are that its HUGE! A 500L reflex sub is the size of a fridge. Its a 10U extra deep and wide rack next to the system. My Floodlighs and TSW-718 suddenly looks compact.  




Posted By: Marko
Date Posted: 30 March 2017 at 11:10am
Congratulations on this new system!
Can you share crossover, eq and limiter settings here? I'm interested in that sorts of things especially for these little bit egzotic stuff.


Posted By: Hvedstrup
Date Posted: 30 March 2017 at 1:17pm
Shure i can give you the settings. 

They load in podware on a 2x6 dsp. 

Gain structure you will need to find your self. 

Limiters are set for 32db fixed gain amps and are RMS. You could loosen them up a bit. 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/esixmsljo6ncuw5/VQ60_2w%2BVS218DR.dse?dl=0" rel="nofollow - https://www.dropbox.com/s/esixmsljo6ncuw5/VQ60_2w%2BVS218DR.dse?dl=0


Posted By: Teunos
Date Posted: 30 March 2017 at 2:01pm
Those cabs for sure will sing! low distortion high SPL output from the 12'' woofers, combined with the huge horn in front of the coax BMS driver and low crossover point will bring great true point source behavior with high power handling.
Basically, my ideal midtop except for i would like to have the 12'' hornloaded to reduce the power consumption to that section and increase directivity down low.
The horn on that BMS is absolutely lovely big, i only dislike that it does not have mouth roundover but the sheer size of it gives such good loading and pattern control down low, its already awesome!


-------------
Best regards,
Teun.


Posted By: Hvedstrup
Date Posted: 30 March 2017 at 2:12pm
Originally posted by Teunos Teunos wrote:

Those cabs for sure will sing! low distortion high SPL output from the 12'' woofers, combined with the huge horn in front of the coax BMS driver and low crossover point will bring great true point source behavior with high power handling.
Basically, my ideal midtop except for i would like to have the 12'' hornloaded to reduce the power consumption to that section and increase directivity down low.
The horn on that BMS is absolutely lovely big, i only dislike that it does not have mouth roundover but the sheer size of it gives such good loading and pattern control down low, its already awesome!


I knew they would Sound good, but just How Good surprised me. The co-ax is crossed at 450hz and a passive crossover at 8khz.


Posted By: Marko
Date Posted: 31 March 2017 at 10:39pm
Originally posted by Hvedstrup Hvedstrup wrote:

Shure i can give you the settings. 

They load in podware on a 2x6 dsp. 

Gain structure you will need to find your self. 

Limiters are set for 32db fixed gain amps and are RMS. You could loosen them up a bit. 


https://www.dropbox.com/s/esixmsljo6ncuw5/VQ60_2w%2BVS218DR.dse?dl=0" rel="nofollow - https://www.dropbox.com/s/esixmsljo6ncuw5/VQ60_2w%2BVS218DR.dse?dl=0

Thanx!


Posted By: matty w
Date Posted: 01 April 2017 at 1:17am
I'd really like to hear this speaker , do you know what would run out of steam first , the 12" section or the bms comp ??
The 12" drivers .. Does anyone know what driver they are based on ? Be intersting to know what kinda 12" they've mated up with the big horn !

450hz to 8k you say .. That's like 4 octaves ... That's a huge stretch for a 2" exit compression driver or any driver tbf ...

Can imagine that harmonic distortion figures are a weak point of this speaker ??


Getting 8 kHz range to sound rite on such a big horn isn't ideal especially when it's being generated by a big 2"exit compression driver diaphragm !
Plus the drivers are being pushed to 450 which makes there higher range sound evan worse !

Heard nothing but good reports on these cabs , I'm intrigued to know more about there design !
I run community m200 2"exit comps on the huge jbl 2360 horns and I cross at like 600 hz , can't get em to sound optimal going any lower .. Mayb I'm doing something wrong hahha


-------------
Black to black , red to red , blue to bits ....



Posted By: doller
Date Posted: 01 April 2017 at 5:06am
That was you at the watrefront then. I remember seeing the Prodigy and others there. 25 odd yrs ago. It was soooo loud I could feel my ear drums distorting. At the front it was inaudable. Ruined a good gig. I doubt that it was you but just always sticks in my mind. Just too loud. This was the ground floor rig. I don't think it was a tannoy rig then.


Posted By: ceharden
Date Posted: 01 April 2017 at 10:35am
I thought the co-ax 2" was the B&C, not the BMS???


Posted By: Teunos
Date Posted: 01 April 2017 at 6:28pm
Has to be the BMS since the diaphragm sizes dont line up with the b&c. Also, i remember seeing some pictures somewhere showing the BMS but i cant seem to find them..

Edit:
Link confirming a user they contain the 4590.
http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,148401.20.html" rel="nofollow - http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,148401.20.html



-------------
Best regards,
Teun.


Posted By: _djk_
Date Posted: 01 April 2017 at 9:04pm
"Mayb I'm doing something wrong hahha"

How narrow is that slot?

(quack, quack, frying-bacon-sounds, etc.)


-------------
djk


Posted By: Hvedstrup
Date Posted: 01 April 2017 at 9:35pm
Originally posted by matty w matty w wrote:

I'd really like to hear this speaker , do you know what would run out of steam first , the 12" section or the bms comp ??
The 12" drivers .. Does anyone know what driver they are based on ? Be intersting to know what kinda 12" they've mated up with the big horn !

450hz to 8k you say .. That's like 4 octaves ... That's a huge stretch for a 2" exit compression driver or any driver tbf ...

Can imagine that harmonic distortion figures are a weak point of this speaker ??


Getting 8 kHz range to sound rite on such a big horn isn't ideal especially when it's being generated by a big 2"exit compression driver diaphragm !
Plus the drivers are being pushed to 450 which makes there higher range sound evan worse !

Heard nothing but good reports on these cabs , I'm intrigued to know more about there design !
I run community m200 2"exit comps on the huge jbl 2360 horns and I cross at like 600 hz , can't get em to sound optimal going any lower .. Mayb I'm doing something wrong hahha

Tbh i don't really understand the physics behind theese boxes. They use some pretty entensive EQ to mess with phase and response like -15db at 1.4 khz with a Q of  5.

Looking at available plots and data they are very liniar and they sound really really good in a subjective listening test. 

The 12" section runs out of steam before the horn. Some users use additional 2x12" boxes to et the full grunt out of the system.   


Posted By: matty w
Date Posted: 02 April 2017 at 3:21am
Yeah had a feeling it would be the 12's , anyone know which 12" driver there loosely based on .. What wattage is the cab and what's there minus 10 db frequency on the low end ? I'm thinking they've probably gone for a bit of an inbetweener , not really a mid but not a sub !
That's the trouble with big horns , u probably need 4 12's to match efficiency but then there's a fairly large distance from the lower positioned 12 and the comps axis !
Could use four tens which would bring them closer together and just except that it isn't gonna go very low !

@ djk have you actually heard the m200 on the 2360 , I presume u have as I seem to remember you stating you once used to sell people the m200 to swap out there jbl comps !
Anyhow , the m200 is actually a much nicer compliment to the 2360 !
The m200's somewhat smooth relaxed sound balances out the big efficient dynamics of the 2360 horns and Iv allwAys thought that they need a really high q attenuation around 2.4 ish .. Seems to be coming from the horn !!
I did consider the idea of inserting a ring of sound absorption on the inside of the slot from top to bottom at the point that the throats width correlates to the problem frequency but havnt got round to trying it yet !

Anyway sorry went a bit off topic there lol

-------------
Black to black , red to red , blue to bits ....



Posted By: Teunos
Date Posted: 02 April 2017 at 9:25am
Originally posted by matty w matty w wrote:

Yeah had a feeling it would be the 12's , anyone know which 12" driver there loosely based on .. What wattage is the cab and what's there minus 10 db frequency on the low end ? I'm thinking they've probably gone for a bit of an inbetweener , not really a mid but not a sub !
That's the trouble with big horns , u probably need 4 12's to match efficiency but then there's a fairly large distance from the lower positioned 12 and the comps axis !
Could use four tens which would bring them closer together and just except that it isn't gonna go very low !

@ djk have you actually heard the m200 on the 2360 , I presume u have as I seem to remember you stating you once used to sell people the m200 to swap out there jbl comps !
Anyhow , the m200 is actually a much nicer compliment to the 2360 !
The m200's somewhat smooth relaxed sound balances out the big efficient dynamics of the 2360 horns and Iv allwAys thought that they need a really high q attenuation around 2.4 ish .. Seems to be coming from the horn !!
I did consider the idea of inserting a ring of sound absorption on the inside of the slot from top to bottom at the point that the throats width correlates to the problem frequency but havnt got round to trying it yet !

Anyway sorry went a bit off topic there lol

But nowadays we have FIR crossovers that can do extremely steep phase coherent crossover. Jumping from 12" to a big horn auddenly is not a problem anymore at that point since there is a near perfect seperarion of source material across the two sources. That way you will never get any kind of lobing in the vertical plane.

Whether or not you want extremely steep crossovers when the two different sources are physically large and the source material is a whole different discussion, but in my two years of experience dealing with mainly FIR on my main pa, i would definitely pick extremely steep phase coherent without vertical lobing over shallow crossovers and overlap between sources.
Just my 2p.

-------------
Best regards,
Teun.


Posted By: _djk_
Date Posted: 02 April 2017 at 9:48pm
Most of the M200 I sold ended up on the 2350 horn, which does not have the narrow slot.

It kind of depends on how loud you need it to play (before it quacks).


-------------
djk



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