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Sae pqm13

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Category: General
Forum Name: General Forum
Forum Description: Open Discussion / Questions
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=98232
Printed Date: 19 April 2024 at 6:55pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.06 - https://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Sae pqm13
Posted By: goodgroove
Subject: Sae pqm13
Date Posted: 06 April 2017 at 3:53pm
Hi any real world user info not opinions on the 4 channel Sae pqm13 amp , how does it sound on midtops or sub, any reliability issues ?
Thanks



Replies:
Posted By: shagnasty
Date Posted: 06 April 2017 at 5:19pm
I have one, I use to run kick and Subs on my TMS-4 system, it sounds solid, much more so than other similar looking amps, appears to well made and is happy running on Gensets.

I would say, I run my rig mainly for live music, not sat there near to clipping for DJ crap bouncing off the limiters.

I have heard if driven into clip they can cause havoc with the mains supply, but I haven't tried that game...


Posted By: bass*en*mass
Date Posted: 06 April 2017 at 6:55pm
We have/had/installed quite a few pqms - no issues at all, even the 3 year old ones never missed a beat..
They do 4ohm bass/8ohm sub each channel but struggle any lower with low notes, running tops 2.66 is fine..
Cant fault them driving tops either although i personally like Matrix more on MHF tbh.


Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 06 April 2017 at 8:53pm
Good groove they have been updated to a mk2, even better than before. New models will be in the uk in the next few weeks..
 
my view may be bias,
 
But ive spanked the ass off them from gensets to good and poor mains. Run a lorry full of em at nottinghill again last year. we even swopped another brand out for sae, as one of my teams amps just could not cut it vs the sae, he now has a full rack of em...
 


-------------
https://www.elements-audio.com


Posted By: knet94
Date Posted: 06 April 2017 at 9:07pm
I've run them on mid and kick but not on highs or subs. Excellent amps and for the money can't think of anything that'll beat them.


Posted By: goodgroove
Date Posted: 07 April 2017 at 2:08am
Thanks to all for input.


Posted By: snowflake
Date Posted: 07 April 2017 at 12:30pm
happy with mine on bi-amped mid/high boxes. build quality seems good and looks relatively easy to work on and repair.


Posted By: ReubGold
Date Posted: 09 April 2017 at 12:38pm
Would be good to see, how they cope on Reggae soundsystem, with pre-amp.


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If he turns me into a zombie, first person I'm coming after is you.


Posted By: vertx
Date Posted: 11 April 2017 at 5:14am
I use a PQM8 for midtops. 2x12" (Fane 12MB) + 1x BMS 4590, per side.

Before the PQM8 I have tried both Crest 8001 and Soundstandard CA18 on both the 12" and the co-ax on top, and sometime a Matrix XT800 on the coax.

I never did any direct comparisons but across various venues/nights impressions were:

- Crest 8001 coldest/darkest sounding on the BMS coax, lacking in very high frequencies
- Crest 8001 not enough headroom on the mids but good sounding 
- Matrix XT800 best sounding on coax tops but not enough headroom (one XT800 bridged per 4590 would be a winner)
- SS CA18 best on mids, loads of headroom, decent sounding
- PQM8 second best sound on coax, a bit harsher but I have since EQ'd the coax comps for the horn they are using so next outing will be interesting to hear the difference
- PQM8 perfect amount of power/headroom for BMS coax
- PQM8 Good sounding on mids, not as much headroom/clean power as SS CA18 but better transients.

Have not run PQM8 on subs yet. not had it too long. 



Posted By: midas
Date Posted: 11 April 2017 at 1:43pm
Have you thought about pkn. Lovely sound to my ears for not too dissimilar money.

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In bass no one can hear you scream!


Posted By: bass*en*mass
Date Posted: 11 April 2017 at 7:48pm
know a venue that ran/run 4x 4590s off a pqm8 since 3 years quite happily.. matrix xt6004 would sound better tough imho :)

still rate the xt800s quite high too on MHF..





Posted By: shagnasty
Date Posted: 12 April 2017 at 12:52am
Personally, I would love to hear a PKN but as not pro companies use them and they have no Pro dealer network in the UK, I can't.

I can go to LMC or similar and get demo kit, but PKN have no presence in the UK.

Gut thoughts, 1U is a massive mechanical liability, the  3 phase connector is a joke, but as I have never heard a bad word about the sound I would like to try one.

The PQM13 rocks and Bee has a real "Pro" user thing going on, whilst I see PKN probably can't afford Bee on-line, they need to appoint a Uk pro dealer and equip them with demo stock.

Given support and market penetration, SAE all day.






Posted By: Darkstar
Date Posted: 12 April 2017 at 1:19am
I have one from forum member Marjan, I use it to run the tops and it's an amazing amp in my opinion. It's very clean, it has heaps of headroom for what I'm using right and the knobs have an amazing feel and stealthy look you can almost forget about them.

I have to say mine is not stock though, as Marjan has made some changes to certain parts in the amp. 

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Bass =/= Enough


Posted By: ArthurG
Date Posted: 12 April 2017 at 4:43am
Looks like SAE improved a lot the pqm13.
5 years ago, we bought 10 pcs to try it on the field (we did 3 events per week on average). The plan was to make an OEM version of it. To be polite, it was not a flawless experience. In less than 6 months, 8 of them had problems (power supply, knobs, stay in protect mode, etc)
Sound wise, lot of background noise, very poor mid-high sound quality but deep warm and powerful bass (put Lab.Gruppen FP10000 to shame in this area). One of the very few switching amp that delivers what it says when powering subs.



Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 12 April 2017 at 6:02am
Originally posted by shagnasty shagnasty wrote:

Personally, I would love to hear a PKN but as not pro companies use them and they have no Pro dealer network in the UK, I can't.

I can go to LMC or similar and get demo kit, but PKN have no presence in the UK.

Gut thoughts, 1U is a massive mechanical liability, the  3 phase connector is a joke, but as I have never heard a bad word about the sound I would like to try one.

The PQM13 rocks and Bee has a real "Pro" user thing going on, whilst I see PKN probably can't afford Bee on-line, they need to appoint a Uk pro dealer and equip them with demo stock.

Given support and market penetration, SAE all day.






Blue Aran have exclusive distribution and support rights for PKN.


Posted By: shagnasty
Date Posted: 12 April 2017 at 3:17pm
Which is a pain as they don't have the 3 Phase babies in for demo use...



Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 12 April 2017 at 3:19pm
I don't think I've heard of a real 3 Phase unit in use on a show. Do they exist properly?


Posted By: shagnasty
Date Posted: 12 April 2017 at 3:34pm
And there is my point, if they do exist, I feel the need to play.

It is total comon sense, 240V is gonna cause a lot more current draw than 415V and to do 8K@ 8r you need 250V rails, so you are litterally pulled speaker current from the mains!!!




Posted By: kevinmcdonough
Date Posted: 13 April 2017 at 9:53pm
Originally posted by shagnasty shagnasty wrote:

And there is my point, if they do exist, I feel the need to play.

It is total comon sense, 240V is gonna cause a lot more current draw than 415V and to do 8K@ 8r you need 250V rails, so you are litterally pulled speaker current from the mains!!!


 
It's great in theory and should helps loads with an even current draw, but problem is that you need to have 3 phase at every venue. People in large pro companies who could guarentee 3 phase at every gig will have a well known brand amp (or manufacturers own like d&b etc) for rider acceptability, and the people who may actually buy a PKN would play in all sorts of smaller venues where 3 phase is probably in short supply. 

Powersoft seem to have the best idea at the moment, their new X series amps are auto switching, they can take 3 phase in when you have it, but will auto switch to single phase if they detect that's the power they're plugged into. 


Posted By: Speaker Sol
Date Posted: 13 April 2017 at 9:58pm
Originally posted by kevinmcdonough kevinmcdonough wrote:


Powersoft seem to have the best idea at the moment, their new X series amps are auto switching, they can take 3 phase in when you have it, but will auto switch to single phase if they detect that's the power they're plugged into. 

The PKN will do this too. But like others here I have never seen one.


Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 13 April 2017 at 10:27pm
Originally posted by kevinmcdonough kevinmcdonough wrote:

Originally posted by shagnasty shagnasty wrote:

And there is my point, if they do exist, I feel the need to play.

It is total comon sense, 240V is gonna cause a lot more current draw than 415V and to do 8K@ 8r you need 250V rails, so you are litterally pulled speaker current from the mains!!!



 
It's great in theory and should helps loads with an even current draw, but problem is that you need to have 3 phase at every venue. People in large pro companies who could guarentee 3 phase at every gig will have a well known brand amp (or manufacturers own like d&b etc) for rider acceptability, and the people who may actually buy a PKN would play in all sorts of smaller venues where 3 phase is probably in short supply. 

Powersoft seem to have the best idea at the moment, their new X series amps are auto switching, they can take 3 phase in when you have it, but will auto switch to single phase if they detect that's the power they're plugged into. 


Not quite that simple, the mains connector is wired differently for three, two or single phase usage but the amp basically doesn't care. One of ours had a bad neutral and we didn't notice til the gig was over, the amp just shrugs it off! The roadshow they did to launch them was fun, amp turns off to standby mode at 55v, and ran fine playing tunes up to 525v when it did the same thing.

Then we ran it off DC.

Then we ran it off a speakon connector coming out of a K20's Ch1 output, playing a 50hz some wave into the K20. Then we played having sex MICHAEL JACKSON into the K20 and the X4 still worked and played a different track through the demo PA.

So yeah I can see why they're appealing to touring

We run ours off single phase all the time, they're as efficient as any other Powersoft so it's fine - technically you could leave a 3ph cable on the amp and use a custom labelled jump lead if you're bothered.

I think the PKN has a different wired connector too for single or three phase but it doesn't support quite as daft a range of power options as the distribution in X


Posted By: bee
Date Posted: 13 April 2017 at 11:59pm
Originally posted by ReubGold ReubGold wrote:

Would be good to see, how they cope on Reggae soundsystem, with pre-amp.
 
one of my demo racks spent many a gig on loan to reggae roast, it was there main rack on there stage at the v festival.
 
Allso they have been used by a fair few systems at nottinghill over the past few years as well as many other roots reggae crews too.. 


-------------
https://www.elements-audio.com


Posted By: shagnasty
Date Posted: 14 April 2017 at 2:50am
Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

Originally posted by kevinmcdonough kevinmcdonough wrote:

Originally posted by shagnasty shagnasty wrote:

And there is my point, if they do exist, I feel the need to play.

It is total comon sense, 240V is gonna cause a lot more current draw than 415V and to do 8K@ 8r you need 250V rails, so you are litterally pulled speaker current from the mains!!!



 
It's great in theory and should helps loads with an even current draw, but problem is that you need to have 3 phase at every venue. People in large pro companies who could guarentee 3 phase at every gig will have a well known brand amp (or manufacturers own like d&b etc) for rider acceptability, and the people who may actually buy a PKN would play in all sorts of smaller venues where 3 phase is probably in short supply. 

Powersoft seem to have the best idea at the moment, their new X series amps are auto switching, they can take 3 phase in when you have it, but will auto switch to single phase if they detect that's the power they're plugged into. 


Not quite that simple, the mains connector is wired differently for three, two or single phase usage but the amp basically doesn't care. One of ours had a bad neutral and we didn't notice til the gig was over, the amp just shrugs it off! The roadshow they did to launch them was fun, amp turns off to standby mode at 55v, and ran fine playing tunes up to 525v when it did the same thing.

Then we ran it off DC.

Then we ran it off a speakon connector coming out of a K20's Ch1 output, playing a 50hz some wave into the K20. Then we played having sex MICHAEL JACKSON into the K20 and the X4 still worked and played a different track through the demo PA.

So yeah I can see why they're appealing to touring

We run ours off single phase all the time, they're as efficient as any other Powersoft so it's fine - technically you could leave a 3ph cable on the amp and use a custom labelled jump lead if you're bothered.

I think the PKN has a different wired connector too for single or three phase but it doesn't support quite as daft a range of power options as the distribution in X

OK

now you are at my level, having sex completely poverty mains connection.

"no Neutral, it shrugged if off" if you were in a single phase scenario you would have lost your gig, it anyone working for me "lost a neutral" they would have lost there teeth as start, knees next, these amps may well be great but have never toured, so by my standards, never gigged.

I know the Lab HPF series dominate touring now, but if you only have line array, quality left a while ago...

FK Vero uses Lab Grup, but they do use bass solution to mitigate that, but again, not been on tour yet, so not a PA system, still a "Sound System".

The tours I have been on, we carry MVAs of power, deliver to 2% and the ability to resolve comedysupplies (where my tooth hammer, get me the "sparks") is just so not relevant, even on small arena tours (IE all UK arenas) we see like 4% drift on line.

I kinda wanna like PKN, but as i said, no pro demo stock, means they are not pro gear to me, I can "demo" crappy little Vi 7000 if I want ( and if I had forklift) but PKN are in this country at retail level in real terms.



Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 14 April 2017 at 5:43am
X series is on tour, it's used by Outline off the top of my head since launch amongst others. Cap Sound have racks of 3x X8 each


Posted By: dylan-penguinmedia
Date Posted: 14 April 2017 at 9:33am
Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

X series is on tour, it's used by Outline off the top of my head since launch amongst others. Cap Sound have racks of 3x X8 each


Dave Rat has been using them for his full monitor setup for the Chillis everywhere too.
1x X4 to each wedge, and loves them.


Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 14 April 2017 at 11:30am
Originally posted by dylan-penguinmedia dylan-penguinmedia wrote:

 

Dave Rat has been using them for his full monitor setup for the Chillis everywhere too.
1x X4 to each wedge, and loves them.

Very cost effective :-)


-------------
Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
www.mm-acoustics.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713


Posted By: U.Viktor
Date Posted: 18 April 2017 at 2:49pm
Unfortunately Powersoft X series can deliver just very little fraction of their rated power, even for very short periods (few milli-seconds), also sustained power levels such as 480W/ch is very disappointing...
We have been expecting that Powersoft exploit the advantages of three phase operation just like PKN did while ago, however due lack of strong power supply and proper switching amplifier construction this has not happened.
In the Powersoft X pack you get an amp with sub milli-second peak ability with a nice DSP but as soon as you need real power from the amp it collapses quickly which limiting its application to a narrow type of jobs.
There is still only one serious three phase amp, the PKN 3PHASE-40K which can do several thousands of Watts per channel continuous for a minute or so (not 1ms..) when operated on 3x 380Vac. Expensive and gives its advantages in narrow range of *large* speakers what tolerates such power levels.. so I am not really surprised to see it just very few companies.



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