Adobe Illustrator -Quadro SLI
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Topic: Adobe Illustrator -Quadro SLI
Posted By: shagnasty
Subject: Adobe Illustrator -Quadro SLI
Date Posted: 18 April 2017 at 2:58pm
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I have an issue with Adobe illustrator, I have HP Z620s with Quadro K4200s in that run 3Ds Max fine but illustrator is a joke. I have just ordered 4 P6000 (Ouch!) boards which leaves me with 4 K4200s, now I can add another K4200 to the remaining workstations in SLI. Has anyone actually seen any benefit from an SLI rig with Adobe Illustrator or will it use just on GPU like Prem only use 20 core of CPU?? Please don't suggest gaming cards, we need Quadro for the Autodesk product which has no certified driver for 1080 etc...  |
Replies:
Posted By: empiresoundsystem
Date Posted: 25 April 2017 at 5:48am
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Are you using CC? I had to roll back to CC 2014 due to bugs galore, and turn off updates from the cloud. Adobe is riddled with them by default, so it's probably not even your machine. I've got that fed up before now that I've even considered defecting to a Corel package... Can you not use Fireworks/PS/ID as a get by, or do you need the toolset of AI? ------------- Failed DJ and fumbling through the world of pro audio. Give me a thumb and make me feel better: www.facebook.com/empireAVWorks |
Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 25 April 2017 at 7:31am
| Illustrator is boolean maths so it's very much CPU focused. Beyond rendering the interface I don't think it even touches the GPU let alone supports SLI. |
Posted By: shagnasty
Date Posted: 25 April 2017 at 5:31pm
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Unfortunately the company that has the machines are committed to the whole CC thing as their clients use those formats. Adobe seem to think computers have a single 40GHz core and right their code accordingly, the machine in question has 16 2.6Ghz cores (32 threads) and illustrator seems to use about 4 threads...... I tried the SLI thing and if anything it seemed a bit slower, with GPU load never going above 46%, as with a single card. Bearing in mind Adobe have only just fixed a HUGE memory leak in AI with Nvidia drivers (which is funny as you need CUDA for parts of the CC suite) I am wondering has the memory leak patch screwed the GPU access. If anyone want a deal on some K4200 boards shout, we are moving to P5000 which seem to work without the killer cost of the P6000.... Tnx for your input guys...
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Posted By: ceharden
Date Posted: 25 April 2017 at 7:41pm
| How many of my kids would I need to sell for a K4200? |
Posted By: shagnasty
Date Posted: 26 April 2017 at 12:03am
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http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/122455387839?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1586.l2649%20" rel="nofollow - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/122455387839?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1586.l2649
less 10%, they aren't mine, but I can def sell you one for 10% less than the final price on this auction as they will loose that to ebay... :-) S
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Posted By: ceharden
Date Posted: 26 April 2017 at 12:27am
| I'll keep an eye on how much it sells for. I don't really need one but it's tempting.... Running a little K600 at the moment and for the small amount of graphics work I do, it's ok. Got a K2000 in my PC at work. |
Posted By: SouthwestCNC
Date Posted: 26 April 2017 at 3:54pm
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Cant see why you'd really need one for autodesk products. I have created assemblies with 20 or so complicated bins in a single assembly perfectly in inventor with a 750ti & cant seem to get any graphics lag even up max and detail level up around 8-9 (haven't managed to get more than that). The i7 does most of the work (well one core). Edit.. maybe large architectural stuff it might struggle. But for non architectural a quadro wont make any difference to a £100 gaming card. 250 hogs, No problem. 
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Posted By: SouthwestCNC
Date Posted: 26 April 2017 at 4:41pm
| Id personally spend a bit more if you think you need it and get a gtx 1080i, Well outperforms the k6000 |
Posted By: shagnasty
Date Posted: 26 April 2017 at 5:25pm
I see you point but Quadro is Autodesk Ceritifed, which is a HUGE issue for companies, they have decent render farm for the Graphs get is really just used for Viewport acceleration, 3dsMax appears happy @ 2 x 4K on a K4200, Illustrator has caused all the greif. The Kepler k6000 isn't a good choice, even a Maxwell M5000 will beat that, we have gone P5000 for 6 machines and P6000 for the 2 that do all the After Effects stuff, but now watch folder rendering is back we are deploying AE across the render farm, in real terms, a 1024 Thread farm won't be as fast as a couple of Tesla boards but it does offload from the workstation.... TBH the whole Adobe suite needs a re-write from the top down, forget OsX, apple no longer make workstations so Pros now use HP Z series, I am sure the Memory leak with Nvidia driver was born from OsX considerations. For what Adobe are charging they need to up their game quite a lot, you look at Autodesk and Maxon they seen to have code that can use hardware, Adobe seem to have code that could do with finishing off... |
SouthwestCNC wrote:Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 26 April 2017 at 5:31pm
| I doubt it, the driver architecture is massively different for macOS and Windows. They're entirely different software with different teams building them. Hell, the backend architecture isn't even the same, OpenGL for older machines / games, and Metal for the windowing system. Windows is pure DirectX. |
Posted By: SouthwestCNC
Date Posted: 26 April 2017 at 8:19pm
Had quite a few conversations on this before I upgraded my cpu/mb as I almost laid down a grand on a quadro. Youre right companies that have excess funds that benefit from the tax they can offset against them, they make sense in that respect. But speaking with my autodesk rep, who even admitted it was pointless for what I was using it for cad/cam for mostly small assemblies in comparison to say an oil rig or such structure. They do benefit from error checking compared with a gaming card and used to have larger vram cache's but with the newer gtx's that's not the case against most of the quadro range. and bar the p5000-6000 the gtx will give you a faster framerate. So for cad unless you really need to say, I need what im viewing to be accurate to hundred decimal places, there is no need for the added expense. Most reviews on the k series will tell you this. Unless your into animation of course (you mentioned after effects, that's one bit of software that I would agree is very gpu heavy and progs like maya) then the p5000-6000 may be the way to go but a k series now would be a poor choice imo as very outdated for the money. Think the 4000 has the same chip as the gtx 900. What instead was recommended was to update my cpu which made a huge difference and a much better use of the money. And of course an ssd. Edit.. sorry rambling, am in the market to upgrade myself and possibly looking for validation but pretty certain its going to be a 1080. As just cant justify the expense on a p5000 in the slightest as the gtx is supported by autodesk products anyway. |
Posted By: shagnasty
Date Posted: 26 April 2017 at 9:46pm
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All fair points TBH. remember K series is 3 gen out of date now, (we have had Maxwell (m Quadro, and are now running Pascal (P Quadro)) but tax aside, I may consider a gaming card like Titan X for my home PC (I use FirePro, just throw that one in....  ) but HP don't certify any gaming card for Z series, Autodesk don't certify gaming cards, once you have 96GB of expensive ECC RDIMMS, 2 x 8 Core Xeon chips, £45K of fibre-channel storage, £180K of Blade arrays as a render farm,the urge to use non-specc'd hardware is not high.I have just build a Xeon workstation up (Z620 V2 based with a Pair of 1080s for student that simply couldn't afford Quadro, it rocks, like really rocks, but runs hot and occasionally crashes (as you say Quadro does have ECC VRAM on it's side) but for the render engine she is using it kicaks more ass than a crap box i7 and the low end Quadro she could have got. I guess (as is common with me) what start as a question has ended as a RANT, but my point stands, how can S'works, Cinema 4D and 'Max and 'Cad run like poo off a Mobil 1 lubed shovel and some crate of crap app like AI needs an extra 500BHP for no reason what-so-ever. For entry level, in fact, redact that, for low component count parametric CAD a second hand, Dual Hex LGA 1366 Xeon HP box (Eg Z600) with an SSD and a 1050 Board will take a LOT of money to beat, i7 takes BIG bucks to perform, and you are tied to a silly low, core count... I have not even googled SouthWest CNC, but I guess you use Autocad/S'works with Fusion or similar as a CAM bridge, given to cost of a CNC rig, time is money, 2 decent workstations with "geforce" boards make more sense than a single one with Quadro of (in real terms, here, the same power) for more money! Thanks again for all your input... S
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Posted By: SouthwestCNC
Date Posted: 26 April 2017 at 11:21pm
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Inventor is great is supports most files, I used to run s/works also but found it unnecessary to have both, HSM cam in inventor runs much better than In s/works. Neither have nesting unfortunately so I have to use third party software for that otherwise inventor pro does it all. Autodesk don't certify gaming cards no, but they have full support for the NVidia cards at least. Something modelled on a crt with onboard graphics will still cut exactly the same as on a p6000 machine and that's all that it boils down to for cnc in all honesty graphics wise and simulation itself is cpu and memory heavy so no big gains there except if viewing an animated sim that you could infact convert to video and play on a dvd player in 4k (if the sim software was so capable) for the same quality. Yeah you have pretty much outlined my approach, I went for the i7 6900k@3.2ghz which is up there with the xeons at half the price. Haven't had any issues with cooling whatsoever but yes they do run hot, Only downside but standard heatsink and fan and never overheated. If only cpu's were able to calculate equations across multiple cores hence why cad will never fully support multi core processing. Clock speed is less important really than the bus speed, My i7 clock is slower than that of my old cpu but much faster, same goes for xeons, the fastest is just 2.5ghz lower than that of the 6900 i7. One way around the multicore processor issue is to run multiple instances of any autodesk prog when same file is open and you save you click update in the other instance and each instance will be assigned to a diferent core so you can infact share the overall task on multiple cores. Never done it mind you, never needed to. In regards to illustrator have you tried turning off scratch disk virtual memory or tried turning off any of the special functions of your gpu driver. |
Posted By: shagnasty
Date Posted: 26 April 2017 at 11:38pm
CNC wise, particularly for wood (no dis-respect) the guy setting the job out prob has more input than the hardware!!!! I am a massive Autodesk  , but do use S'works when I need structural info, but I do a lot with steel (wood is tricky to weld and TBH I am a fabricator by heart... ) but as for AI, I had to get the latest 2017 .1 .0 build by signing for for pre-release SW just to get arround the Nvidia Memory leak issue, I just think the fact we run 2 NEC 4K screens ( NEC screens are AWESOME) per workstation shows the Shoddy code in Adobe product, Ai is MS paint compared to 'Max and 'max runs fine.I guess using Quadro is a bit like using Switchcraft/Belden mic leads, for most situations Neutrik/VDC would do, but when it matters you spend the extra few quid to cover your ass. For ref on the above analogy, most of my rig uses Pro Signal XLR, Ampheonol Jacks ( really nicer to handle than Neutrik) and i can't justify Belden, but consider Kelsey 200% of VDC. But funnily, I only use Genuine Neutrik Powercon/speakon, because that matters. Office '95, please insert floppy #4 to continue, Adobe CC, please insert another E5 Xeon and 6x 4GB ECC RDimms to continue..... |
Posted By: SouthwestCNC
Date Posted: 26 April 2017 at 11:43pm
Lol. Maybe revert back to an older version as mentioned. Sw cam is is very much like paint. Bloody awful and will throw its dummy out of the pram with the slightest error. Same part in inventor hsm (same engine as s/w hsm) no issues. The original designers left dassault, Which I'm sure has meant they have made less progress with their engine for addons. They went on to make onshape. |
Posted By: shagnasty
Date Posted: 26 April 2017 at 11:46pm
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That's the point, the older version has had a memory leak with Nvidia drivers for the last 3 years!!!!!! RANT!!! Bigger RANT... I guess you are getting my RANT!!!!!
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Posted By: SouthwestCNC
Date Posted: 26 April 2017 at 11:55pm
Dreamweaver cc is just as bad with Constant crashes. |
Posted By: shagnasty
Date Posted: 27 April 2017 at 12:34am
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Have you checked the forums for memory leak crap if you are running Nvidia??? https://forums.adobe.com/thread/2235794?start=80&tstart=0" rel="nofollow - https://forums.adobe.com/thread/2235794?start=80&tstart=0 This pissed me of so much... |
Posted By: Aman Gebru
Date Posted: 27 April 2017 at 10:21am
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I just don't get how Illustrator could give even the most basic PC a problem. Give me any PC from the past 12 years and any version of Illustrator and it will work great. Its less processor demanding than word or excel. Maybe you have tried to reconfigure the scratch disks or are doing photo editing that should be exported to photoshop, other than that I can't see why anyone would ever have a problem. |
Posted By: shagnasty
Date Posted: 27 April 2017 at 4:36pm
| I think you may be missing the file sizes we deal with and the 2x 4K screens.... |
Posted By: nickyburnell
Date Posted: 27 April 2017 at 7:57pm
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No where near you guys with this but one of my customers (Archaeology) uses AI on 7 desks. Firmly staying with CS4! The later was a hog and leaked. Mind you, they are also happy with Office 2007. Sensible people? ------------- It's everything, not everythink! |
Posted By: shagnasty
Date Posted: 28 April 2017 at 1:22am
Hallelujeh!!!! I say Hallelujeh Brother!!!! If it ain't bust don't fix it... But, when the world goes speakon, EPx is a pain, file formats dictate "progression" but you ar SO Right! |
Posted By: Aman Gebru
Date Posted: 28 April 2017 at 3:25am
Then I would be running Adobe Premier not Illustrator. |
Posted By: shagnasty
Date Posted: 28 April 2017 at 3:24pm
I don't think you can use Prem to produce vector graphics for print, in fact I KNOW you can't. The truth is scratch drives, all that stuff is just crap, using SSDs and 48GB of ram, Adobe need to start writing Code that can work on today's hardware, AI is nothing compared to some packages complexity wise but still needs more power to run. Shoddy, just utterly shoddy.
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Posted By: 4D
Date Posted: 03 May 2017 at 1:46pm
Just found this in my office. Adobe photoshop 3.0 on five 1.44mb floppy discs somewhere is illustrator from the same period ------------- DMZ. "The bass was intense. Girls were literally running up to stand next to the subs" |
Posted By: shagnasty
Date Posted: 03 May 2017 at 2:08pm
7MB, that was when they knew how to write code!!!!!!!!!
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Posted By: nickyburnell
Date Posted: 03 May 2017 at 2:46pm
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Had to, no space. Same with everything, cars that park, light amps.....laaazyyyy world Good find, 7mb! Wonderful ------------- It's everything, not everythink! |
Posted By: odc04r
Date Posted: 04 May 2017 at 9:13am
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First PC I had used 200Mb removable HDs. Happy days deciding what to uninstall every time you wanted something new on there. Well once I also had a 20Mb in an Amiga 600 too, blew my mind at the time once I eventually managed to get something on it. |