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DSP options - Sure Audio DSP?

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Category: General
Forum Name: 12v Powered Systems
Forum Description: From Mini-rigs to ICE, all your low voltage audio needs here...
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=98349
Printed Date: 17 November 2017 at 7:15pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: DSP options - Sure Audio DSP?
Posted By: carlosdelondres
Subject: DSP options - Sure Audio DSP?
Date Posted: 20 April 2017 at 11:23am
Has anyone got any experience of this board?

http://store3.sure-electronics.com/adau1701-audio-digital-signal-processor-kernel-board" rel="nofollow - http://store3.sure-electronics.com/adau1701-audio-digital-signal-processor-kernel-board

looks promising, but the spec sheet is a bit short on detail...

Looking for a solution for a 3 way micro system. MiniDSP seem way too expensive for what they are, the other option would be to convert an ultradrive or possibly a decent analogue crossover to DC operation, but the power draw might be a bit of an issue...

What are people doing on this front?

Cheers!



Replies:
Posted By: studio45
Date Posted: 20 April 2017 at 2:14pm
Well that is basically the FreeDSP on a smaller board. As such it should be pretty good. I managed to cock up soldering the main chip on my FreeDSP, so it's nice that this one comes pre-soldered. And only about £35 for DSP, programmer and breakout board - that's cheap!
I currently use an analogue crossover board from KMTech on eBay, which probably ended up costing about that much after I'd finished dicking about with them. Had to make up a power supply solution (Boost regulator to get 48v from battery for power amp, linear regulator to get +30v from +48v rail, virtual ground circuit using opamp to get +30/+15/0v rails, addition of coupling caps to keep DC out of power amp) and power-off thump reduction (local reservoir cap and diode). These little buggers would power directly from the batteries.
Of course the biggest benefit is probably the inclusion of dynamics processing ie a limiter. The Sure amp modules go into fault mode if there are more than a very few cycles of clipping at an output, so by yelling into a mic I can make my midtops cut out if I'm not careful, and you have to power cycle to get them back on. Limiter would sort that out.
I'm probably going to buy these.....Big smile


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Studio45 - Box Builder Commotion Soundsystem -Mobile PA


Posted By: carlosdelondres
Date Posted: 20 April 2017 at 3:08pm
Hmm, currently the website not letting me buy one. Waiting for a response from sales dept. 2 of these should fit the bill nicely...


Posted By: bitSmasher
Date Posted: 21 April 2017 at 12:15am
Interesting... just bought two JAB2 boards, and appears this DSP will plug straight in

Would like to see more details before purchasing - wonder how much effort it'd be to set up, as MiniDSP is pretty straightforward

Whoever buys first, be sure to report back

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"Battery Acid Sound System" blog hopefully happening in 2017


Posted By: carlosdelondres
Date Posted: 11 May 2017 at 10:34am
There is a thread on Diyaudio with some details...doesn't look exactly plug-n-play ;)

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/294423-new-sure-electronics-adau1701-module.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/294423-new-sure-electronics-adau1701-module.html


Posted By: bitSmasher
Date Posted: 11 May 2017 at 10:09pm
Hrm... might just stick with MiniDSP

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"Battery Acid Sound System" blog hopefully happening in 2017


Posted By: amlu
Date Posted: 02 June 2017 at 10:13pm
I just settled on a dcx run from an inverter... yeah there are some efficiency looses but never got around to hacking it for dc operation... there is a manual on the net for doing it.

mini dsp sucks.... needs windoze or mac for changing settings. have 2x8 one gathering dust in the drawer, dont fancy carrying a laptop with me to the gigs.


Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 03 June 2017 at 3:27am
I would argue that if you set your DSP up right before the show the only thing you should need during is EQ - which is offered by many other tools.

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http://www.neuronproaudio.co.uk" rel="nofollow - http://www.neuronproaudio.co.uk


Posted By: Edd Jordan
Date Posted: 17 June 2017 at 12:03am
so no one has got one yet? just about to put in an order for 2? interesting...



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I do a sideline in ply wood wheels.


Posted By: carlosdelondres
Date Posted: 24 June 2017 at 1:11pm
Still figuring out how straightforward to get it working so not pulled the trigger yet. Sigma Studio is interesting, but a lot more sophisticated than anything I have used before. Just been working through some tutorials etc. to get to grips with it. Looks promising though. Found a useful intro to some of the concepts on the Powersoft website...

http://www.powersoft-audio.com/pt/downloads/documentacao/user-guides/software-1/419-sigmastudio-user-guide/file" rel="nofollow - http://www.powersoft-audio.com/pt/downloads/documentacao/user-guides/software-1/419-sigmastudio-user-guide/file


Posted By: Edd Jordan
Date Posted: 24 June 2017 at 1:57pm
/\ good link

Thumbs Up


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I do a sideline in ply wood wheels.


Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 24 June 2017 at 8:03pm
Sigma studio is absolutely horrible.

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Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
www.mm-acoustics.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713


Posted By: carlosdelondres
Date Posted: 26 June 2017 at 10:07am
Care to elaborate on that?


Posted By: MarjanM
Date Posted: 26 June 2017 at 10:46pm
Very outdated software that also require expensive hardware to be able to program the dsp board. Even Powersoft abandoned it. All DSPs are now adopted to work with Armonia.

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Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
www.mm-acoustics.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713


Posted By: carlosdelondres
Date Posted: 27 June 2017 at 9:54am
well, will see when the bits from Sure arrive - $64 for the ADAU1701 plus programmers etc. If it works, it'll be good enough for the application...


Posted By: studio45
Date Posted: 27 June 2017 at 2:22pm
So were Powersofts programmed with SigmaStudio once upon a time?

The "expensive hardware" can just be a suitably programmed Arduino, cos all it's got to do is translate USB serial data into I2S signals and feed them to the DSP. FreeDSP used this method. Analog Devices do make a £99 programmer that is possibly a little more feature-rich but, not really necessary. And Sure seem to have managed to make a very cheap USB programmer for sale with this unit.

However, that makes me wonder if - with a VERY cleverly programmed Arduino - Armonia could be fooled into thinking this is a Powersoft module?


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Studio45 - Box Builder Commotion Soundsystem -Mobile PA


Posted By: carlosdelondres
Date Posted: 03 September 2017 at 1:59pm
Well, had a bit of time to play around with the Sure ADAU1701 board and the JAB2/3 combination - the DSP works just fine, programmed with the Sure ICP1 programmer and Sigma Studio. Setting up simple crossovers for a 2 way battery bass/sub system was straighforward, and the sound quality seems perfectly acceptable. With the expansion board you get 2 x RCA in and 3x RCA out, though the 4th channel is present on the bare board.

The JAB2/3 combination is a little less satisfying - it all works fine, but if you connect via bluetooth to the JAB2 side of things it passes the signal to the JAB3 DSP, but apparently not the return path, so it will send the full range signal to the JAB2 amplifier. Not so good if it is powering your tweeters...Also a LOT of noise, background chirping, presumably from the bluetooth module. For some reason the expansion board on/off switch and leds don't do anything on the JAB3. Waiting to hear back from Sure on the issues. Sound quality on the amps is otherwise ok...

Still, for the money not bad at all I reckon...


Posted By: Edd Jordan
Date Posted: 27 September 2017 at 12:37am
HI iv got the jam 3 is it suppose to be run in conjunction with a jam 2 to give you 2.1 then? also iv found the expantion board dosnt work with the jab3. 

i need to get in contact with sure as there jab pdf is as clear as mud. 




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I do a sideline in ply wood wheels.


Posted By: carlosdelondres
Date Posted: 27 September 2017 at 11:24am
The JAB 3 + JAB2 combination gives 4 channels of DSP, but only if the signal is input to the JAB3, afaik. With just the JAB3 you'll get 2 channels of DSP and amp, but nothing to stop you taking the signal from the JAB2/3 link out socket and feeding it to another amp to get the other channels...their documentation is almost wilfully obtuse I agree...


Posted By: Edd Jordan
Date Posted: 27 September 2017 at 8:43pm
thanks for that yeh i think im going to skype them i need it for portable speaker i want to ge tinto production but i just cant get this board to work. sure in the past have just been simple plug and play but this jab series has me stumped. good luck if i get any info on how to get these boards to work easly i will post it up here. 



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I do a sideline in ply wood wheels.


Posted By: carlosdelondres
Date Posted: 28 September 2017 at 10:14am
What is it you can't get working (other than the switch/leds on the extension board)?


Posted By: carlosdelondres
Date Posted: 28 September 2017 at 2:47pm
Just hooked up some 18650s to my JAB3/2 and unfortunately the JAB3 MPPT doesn't seem to be charging either, though it powers fine from the cells. On the JAB2 it is working fine. Odd...




Posted By: Edd Jordan
Date Posted: 29 September 2017 at 12:19am
are all the 18650s at the right indavidual voltage? also you need a 19v power adapter to charge and play at the same time correct? my jab 3 board 1x 60 watt sounds terrible muffled and 2 of the trim pots for high cut and low cut dont work. i havnt pluged into it yet with sigma studio. iv got 3 diffrent types of board i need to sit down with all of them together and try and work out whats going on. also bough a couple of the indavidual kernal boards with the analogue break out board. as soon as i get a chance to play i will let you know if i find anything out. 



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I do a sideline in ply wood wheels.


Posted By: carlosdelondres
Date Posted: 29 September 2017 at 8:41am
The 18650s are charging up to 3.96 volts per cell, which is a bit low unfortunately. I'm just using an old laptop brick to charge/run from 240v.

I didn't bother with the program that was on the board when it came, just hooked up to sigma studio (with the sure ICP1 programmer) and put my own program on. That side of things works fine, although the connection to the JAB3 board is much flakier than the ADAU1701 board for some reason.

To program there are a few wrinkles not that clearly covered in the docs. Connect the ICP1 via usb and verify the connection in the harware configuration tab in Sigma Studio is showing green, hit link compile connect on Sigma Studio, then connect to the programming port on the JAB3/ADAU1701. Then hit link compile download. The board should now be running your program. To write it to the EEPROM, move the micro switch on the ICP1 to position 1 and right click the AUAU1701 box in sigma studio HW configuration tab, choose write latest compilation to EEPROM. Move switch back to position 2 and disconnect/reboot the board to run in standalone mode.

You can make changes to parameters in real time after hitting link compile download, but if you add new processing blocks you need to recompile and download the program.

Worth reading through the Sigma Studio wiki to get more of an idea of what it can do - there are some quite useful excercises in the projects section on their website as well...


Posted By: studio45
Date Posted: 29 September 2017 at 3:49pm
Are you using the limiters at all, if so what are they like? That'd be the main reason I would buy one of these. But only if they seem to work well. 

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Studio45 - Box Builder Commotion Soundsystem -Mobile PA


Posted By: carlosdelondres
Date Posted: 29 September 2017 at 4:02pm
Haven't tried them yet, don't really know what power the amps are giving as Sure publish a slightly odd set of specs. I'd imagine they're ok though, Powersoft have some instructions on setting them up available here:
http://www.powersoft-audio.com/en/docman/654-d-cell504-and-digimod-how-to-set-rms-limiters-in-sigmastudio" rel="nofollow - http://www.powersoft-audio.com/en/docman/654-d-cell504-and-digimod-how-to-set-rms-limiters-in-sigmastudio


Posted By: carlosdelondres
Date Posted: 04 October 2017 at 2:16pm
Had a bit of a play with the limiters. They are a pain to set up, but seem to work fine. Peak + RMS combo works nicely as far as I can tell without much in the way of specs or instrumentation. Used on a pair of dual 5" PPSL/bandpass subs, tames excursion peaks without losing too much of the bass. Time will tell if the RMS portion of the algorithm is working setup correctly, but I'm sure if it is set right, it will work and sound pretty good.

if anyone has any advice on setup of this limiter would be great to hear it :)

https://wiki.analog.com/resources/tools-software/sigmastudio/toolbox/dynamicsprocessors/peakrmscombonogain" rel="nofollow - https://wiki.analog.com/resources/tools-software/sigmastudio/toolbox/dynamicsprocessors/peakrmscombonogain


Posted By: studio45
Date Posted: 04 October 2017 at 8:09pm
Excellent, that is encouraging. I'll buy a board and get experimenting then :)

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Studio45 - Box Builder Commotion Soundsystem -Mobile PA


Posted By: carlosdelondres
Date Posted: 11 October 2017 at 9:35am
Originally posted by Edd Jordan Edd Jordan wrote:

HI iv got the jam 3 is it suppose to be run in conjunction with a jam 2 to give you 2.1 then? also iv found the expantion board dosnt work with the jab3. 

i need to get in contact with sure as there jab pdf is as clear as mud. 




Had a reply back from Sure, the expansion board switch and LED do not work with the JAB3 (helpful...)

Originally posted by Edd Jordan Edd Jordan wrote:

are all the 18650s at the right indavidual voltage? also you need a 19v power adapter to charge and play at the same time correct?



Sure have confirmed the JAB3 does not charge the 18650 board. You have to parallel the board with the MPPT on a JAB2 for this to work. Mine is connected 19V laptop psu to both JAB2 and 3 power inputs, then the JAB2 MPPT 4 pin connects to the first 18650 board, then on to the 2nd, then the JAB3. This works, though for some reason it has not fully charged the cells. Waiting to hear back on this.

I've got the JAB3 programming guide, and the JAB2/3 installation guide, which contain some useful information (or some information it would have been useful to have...)

Available here: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/cc17zf3cula78yp/AAB6y_n3DkwUoFU7tgugtXN1a?dl=0" rel="nofollow - https://www.dropbox.com/sh/cc17zf3cula78yp/AAB6y_n3DkwUoFU7tgugtXN1a?dl=0


Posted By: Natedub
Date Posted: 17 October 2017 at 6:41pm
Great thread on the sure audio dsp. I too have been playing with these for a little mini project. The dsp works great with good audio quality. I have been struggling with the icp1 programmer though. SometimesI can connect and program no problem, but most of the time it is extremely flaky to say the least. Sigma studio recognises the icp1 (usb connection turns green) when I click link compile connect all is good but as soon as I click link compile download it says communication failed. There is no rhyme nor reason to it. Once in a while it just works. I have tried everything. I have messaged sure and asked for a replacement icp1, hell I have even asked to buy another icp1 but they just keep asking me simple questions such as 'is switch 1 in position 1' its driving me crazy! Anyone got any tips? Its otherwise a good unit but these problems are putting me off. Anyone else have these problems? Thanks guys


Posted By: carlosdelondres
Date Posted: 18 October 2017 at 5:43pm
The dsp in my jab3 is definitely flakey, the one in the standalone adau1701 has been mostly ok. It seems to be a usb connection or driver issue of some sort. Also, tried a few cables and the one with the tightest fitting connectors seems to work most often. Not ideal for making on the fly changes. Ok for working out settings then writing to the eeprom...

Edit, did try 2 icp1 programmers, no noticeable difference on that front.


Posted By: studio45
Date Posted: 19 October 2017 at 3:47pm
I dunno if it's relevant but the cheap Arduino clones usually require some "fiddling" with the reset button to get them to accept a new program, ie press it either just before, or just after, clicking "transfer" on the computer. You find this out by repeatedly trying to send the program and pressing it at different moments.
Some don't need it pressing at all (which is how the system is supposed to work) but it seems there is variability between individual boards on this. And if you have a board that needs "the fiddle", it will occasionally accept a program without after many many tries - sounds like what is happening here?


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Studio45 - Box Builder Commotion Soundsystem -Mobile PA


Posted By: Natedub
Date Posted: 22 October 2017 at 12:38pm
Thanks for the input guys. Interestingly the few times I have managed to get it to work have been after pressing the reset buttons on the board. Nothing seems to make it work now. I have tried another dsp so now going to get a replacement icp sent out by sure.



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