Newbie Discussion - Best cabinet for heavy bass music

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Best cabinet for heavy bass music

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Forum Name: Newbie Discussion
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URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=98406
Printed Date: 29 November 2023 at 6:26am
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Topic: Best cabinet for heavy bass music

Posted By: jngggggggg
Subject: Best cabinet for heavy bass music
Date Posted: 28 April 2017 at 12:27am

Hey everyone,

I am interested in building a 3 way sound system and am looking for newb advice. I have a loose understanding of all the components I need. I'm still in the early stages at this point...

Apologies as I feel like this question has been asked so many times... What type of bass cabinet is best suited for heavy bass music? I want to build bins that are capable of going as low as 25-30hz. Feel free to link me to another thread

Some considerations are that these will likely go in a small club with max 250 people. As a result, the audience will be fairly close to the system which is why I am hesitant to consider horn loaded cabs (although from what I have read, scoops can push out more dB compared to reflex?). That being said, from what I have gathered, a reflex design would be the best option (especially when considering the throw of scoops). Size is somewhat important since these will be going in a small venue and I would like to keep transport costs/effort reasonable.

Other cabs that I am considering would be shortmans, mini-scoops or hogs but I am not sure how they compare.

There are endless styles and I just get lost when trying to compare since everyone has an opinion…haha

Maybe this will all go away and I'll just need to buy something premade since I am out of Canada and have zero woodworking skills T_T

Thanks

Replies:

Posted By: Conanski
Date Posted: 28 April 2017 at 1:22am

Reflex.. period. Scoops don't outperform reflex subs at the frequencies you're talking about.. matter of fact nothing much does until horns get rediculously large. Throw is a misunderstood issue too, what people call throw is just directivity.. horns focus more energy in front of the cab with less spill to the sides and behind, put a set of barn doors on a dual 18 cab and you get the same result. And producing good bass indoors is more about sub placement in the room than raw system capability so you will have to do some homework to determine the best layout.

As for what to build, use some of the latest state of the art drivers(B&C 18TBW or 18SW), build the right size cab to deliver the lowend corner you want and the right number of cabs to deliver the SPL or impact you want, and power appropriately of course. You won't achieve this with a pair of drivers just to be clear, life just begins with four 18" drivers in the reflex world IMO so plan on using 8 drivers or more eventually depending upon how bass crazy the requirements are.

Posted By: jngggggggg
Date Posted: 28 April 2017 at 4:59am

Conanski wrote:

Reflex.. period. Scoops don't outperform reflex subs at the frequencies you're talking about.. matter of fact nothing much does until horns get rediculously large. Throw is a misunderstood issue too, what people call throw is just directivity.. horns focus more energy in front of the cab with less spill to the sides and behind, put a set of barn doors on a dual 18 cab and you get the same result. And producing good bass indoors is more about sub placement in the room than raw system capability so you will have to do some homework to determine the best layout.

As for what to build, use some of the latest state of the art drivers(B&C 18TBW or 18SW), build the right size cab to deliver the lowend corner you want and the right number of cabs to deliver the SPL or impact you want, and power appropriately of course. You won't achieve this with a pair of drivers just to be clear, life just begins with four 18" drivers in the reflex world IMO so plan on using 8 drivers or more eventually depending upon how bass crazy the requirements are.

Thanks for the reply! Any thoughts on what style of reflex cab? I'm not overly familiar with the options but I've heard that bandpass cabs when made properly can really shine

Posted By: gen0me
Date Posted: 28 April 2017 at 6:45am

What kind of havy bass music? Like Flux P - Bass Cannon? Or trap? Or what?

Posted By: rm31
Date Posted: 28 April 2017 at 6:55am

Follow the specification for this driver and you won't go too far wrong... Budget permitting....

http://www.bmsspeakers.com/index.php?id=18n862_specification" rel="nofollow - http://www.bmsspeakers.com/index.php?id=18n862_specification

-------------
Martin Audio F2
RCF MB15N301
Martin Audio FSX
BMS 18N862

Posted By: jngggggggg
Date Posted: 28 April 2017 at 5:39pm

gen0me wrote:

What kind of havy bass music? Like Flux P - Bass Cannon? Or trap? Or what?

proper dubstep - didnt wanna specifically reference that genre since many have their opinions of the sound and i wanted to keep this thread focussed heh

i also play a lot of reggae/dub & "modern" dub music

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkPI2B_w8_Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5i-AWwJJeN4

Posted By: jngggggggg
Date Posted: 28 April 2017 at 5:41pm

rm31 wrote:

Follow the specification for this driver and you won't go too far wrong... Budget permitting....

http://www.bmsspeakers.com/index.php?id=18n862_specification - http://www.bmsspeakers.com/index.php?id=18n862_specification

nice1! was actually browsing their drivers before you suggested.. however, i do not have any cab designing software or knowledge at all. are there any free-plans that pair well w/ this driver for my needs? or is it more complicated than that?

Posted By: gen0me
Date Posted: 28 April 2017 at 7:44pm

Than build tapped horn! Cant imagine better suited construction for dubstep. This bms is for BR unfortunately.
Search othorn for start.

Posted By: gen0me
Date Posted: 28 April 2017 at 7:46pm

+ lets say 2 15 with hf

Posted By: I-shen Soundboy
Date Posted: 28 April 2017 at 9:03pm

jngggggggg wrote:

however, i do not have any cab designing software or knowledge at all. are there any free-plans that pair well w/ this driver for my needs? or is it more complicated than that?

The joy of reflex is a much simpler design process.
Key variables are nett internal volume (internal airspace of cabinet, remembering to exclude driver, port & bracing volumes) and the dimensions (length+cross sectional area) of the port(s). BMS give a suggested tuning on the pdf data sheet for this driver:

Cabinet 153 litres, round port 200mm diameter & 601mm length, for a tuning frequency of 28.5hz.

This is a good frequency to tune a driver capable of reproducing lower frequencies (20hz at -3db) and is a little above the speakers resonant frequency (it's a rule of thumb to tune port frequency to 1.07 times speaker resonance, this is a little more) as the port output will augment driver output for about a third of an octave below tuning frequency, as well as an octave or so above.

Of course, you could tune a different size box or use different port dimensions to achieve this tuning, or try to.lower it even - play around with an online port calculator. Bigger boxes go lower easier, smaller ports chuff at high output - again, you can use online resources to simulate this, but you've got a fair bit of leeway, I'd guess anything between 125 & 300 litres would be doable.

To give you an idea of dimensions, a 153 litre internal box would be about 5.2cubic feet internally, or about 3' x 2' x 1' externally.

Posted By: gen0me
Date Posted: 28 April 2017 at 9:14pm

Ehh again and again the same

Author has specific needs for specific genres. He doesnt need the most universal or commercially suitable construction.

Posted By: I-shen Soundboy
Date Posted: 28 April 2017 at 9:22pm

He's asking about very low frequency reproduction and had expressly asked about the BMS. I've no experience with this driver, but I've indicated the resources and an approach to take.

By all means feel free to contribute constructive criticism, particular given the presumed experience and woodwork skills of the OP

Posted By: rm31
Date Posted: 28 April 2017 at 9:40pm

jngggggggg wrote:

rm31 wrote:

Follow the specification for this driver and you won't go too far wrong... Budget permitting....

http://www.bmsspeakers.com/index.php?id=18n862_specification" rel="nofollow - http://www.bmsspeakers.com/index.php?id=18n862_specification - http://www.bmsspeakers.com/index.php?id=18n862_specification%20" rel="nofollow - http://www.bmsspeakers.com/index.php?id=18n862_specification

http://forum.speakerplans.com/bms-18n862-project_topic89581.html " rel="nofollow - http://forum.speakerplans.com/bms-18n862-project_topic89581.html ;

I did this however the plans need updating. I later added three braces as the side next to the ports were flexing as well as a load of wadding in the back. It was also made with 1/2" plywood which didn't really help but the bracing definitely did. I was after something which would pass the 'circumference test' i.e. would it play breakage - circumference all the way down and these definitely do with authority. They do however also need a lot of power so you will have to factor that in. I run mine off a single channel of an mc2 - e45.

-------------
Martin Audio F2
RCF MB15N301
Martin Audio FSX
BMS 18N862

Posted By: volcano
Date Posted: 29 April 2017 at 1:52am

I made a design around the BMS 18n862. My design goal was to have a compact box that goes low. So obviously effeciency is sacrificed (meaning that you need a big amp to drive it).
The design needs a 6 dB boost at 28,5hz Q2 to play as intended.
The Idea behind this was to have a compact speaker for smallish gigs, till 200 people. And to make double 18 inch 500l cabinets for the same speaker if i need to use the full potential of the drivers.

It's not yet build and tested as funds don't allow it :-)
http://forum.speakerplans.com/the-singing-canary-sub_topic96721.html" rel="nofollow - http://forum.speakerplans.com/the-singing-canary-sub_topic96721.html

Posted By: jngggggggg
Date Posted: 02 May 2017 at 5:32am

would having subs tuned to this specification limit its ability to produce higher-freq bass as well? current plan is a 3 way system (ie: tweeters, low/upper mid range, bass) so i dont plan on having kick-bins (unless i upgrade in the future)

Posted By: SouthwestCNC
Date Posted: 02 May 2017 at 10:08am

You say you play dub and reggae, are you therefore intending on putting vocals through those 18's? Just curious as to how well the reflex will cover sub, mid bass n vocals with an 18.

Posted By: jngggggggg
Date Posted: 02 May 2017 at 10:46pm

SouthwestCNC wrote:

You say you play dub and reggae, are you therefore intending on putting vocals through those 18's? Just curious as to how well the reflex will cover sub, mid bass n vocals with an 18.

Yes this was my next question. The plan as per above would be a 3 way. Bins, low/upper mids, and tops. I will be playing some music w vocals (not sure if that answers your question) but still haven't looked into how I will be 'operating' the system for a lack of better words.

Posted By: Conanski
Date Posted: 03 May 2017 at 1:58am

jngggggggg wrote:

would having subs tuned to this specification limit its ability to produce higher-freq bass as well?

No. Again this is another benefit of reflex cab, if the drivers can do it there is nothing stopping you from running the 18's up into midrange frequencies if you have to, but you shouldn't have to with the correct mid drivers .

jngggggggg wrote:

current plan is a 3 way system (ie: tweeters, low/upper mid range, bass) so i dont plan on having kick-bins (unless i upgrade in the future)

3 way reflex system can do it all really with the correct drivers, it's a blank canvas that can sound like anything you want with simple EQ adjustments. I have a system with dual 18 subs under dual 15+2" tops, the 15s are proper low/mid drivers with no meaningful output below 70hz and the 2" driver is a nice B&C unit. This system covers the whole spectrum with authority, bass guitar sounds fat yet vocals are clear and it even has good high end.. no probably not quite as much sparkle up there as some super tweeters would deliver but it's impressive what can be done with the parametric EQs in a processor like the DCX. If the tops were 12's instead the low/mids wouldn't have quite as much weight but it wouldn't be too shabby either, unless you compared it to a system with 15s side by side you wouldn't think you were missing anything and the 12's could be much smaller and easier to move. My dual 15s weigh 150lbs dues to a stack of ceramic magnet drivers inside and 44" tall baltic birch cabs, swap in neo drivers and that would drop to almost half the weight, and the cab can be smaller and lighter if smaller drivers are used too. But if you drop down to 10" mids then you'll likely miss some low/mid and want kick bins, so bottom line is design it as a complete system to start and you won't be disappointed.

Posted By: jngggggggg
Date Posted: 12 May 2017 at 12:31am

Is there a rule of thumb that helps you decide when you should just build bass cabinets vs when its necessary to build both sub cabinets and kickbins on top?

Aside from your personal needs ie how much hifi u need...?

I'm guessing if you are like me and require bass extension down to 25hz you'll have no choice? Or can anyone suggest a design that has a large bandpass? Thanks!

Posted By: rish
Date Posted: 12 May 2017 at 7:23am

jngggggggg wrote:

current plan is a 3 way system (ie: tweeters, low/upper mid range, bass) so i dont plan on having kick-bins (unless i upgrade in the future)

Hi Paul

couldn't agree with you any more. I have a similar setup with 18" dual BR ( which is brilliant compared to tape horns etc) and single 15" mid high cab, that loaded with Faital 15FX560 and that combo seems to work the best. ive tried 12 inch cabs as mid high but could never get it to sound like what I have now. And the cherry on the top is that I can use the 15"mid cabs on its own when I don't need subs but also have decent output.

Rish