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subs to add to turbo

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Forum Description: Open Discussion / Questions
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=98557
Printed Date: 29 March 2024 at 6:03am
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Topic: subs to add to turbo
Posted By: abrupt
Subject: subs to add to turbo
Date Posted: 18 May 2017 at 6:32pm
i want to add more bottom end to my system (30hz) without getting more turbosound,has anyone got any suggestions as to what would be good to combine to my current setup

8 tse 118
4 tms 4



Replies:
Posted By: shagnasty
Date Posted: 18 May 2017 at 7:20pm
TSW-718 plans are floating about 4 of those run 30-80Hz would work well sonically and stack easy, 


Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 18 May 2017 at 7:25pm
or just buy 4.. from me.. or someone of your choosing..

or buy the 4 tsw718 AND a pair of TSE218 from me...


Posted By: abrupt
Date Posted: 18 May 2017 at 8:07pm
Originally posted by cravings cravings wrote:

or just buy 4.. from me.. or someone of your choosing..

or buy the 4 tsw718 AND a pair of TSE218 from me...

pm me what you have a prices please


Posted By: mi mong
Date Posted: 19 May 2017 at 7:19am
tsw 718 is a 50hz up cab... specs say minus 3db at 50 hz  I would go for some thing else if you want 30hz

-------------
i went out today in my dressing gown......


Posted By: shagnasty
Date Posted: 19 May 2017 at 8:48am
Having used 2 of these boxes under TMS-4s, as apposed to reading the manual, they will produce viable energy @ 30Hz with the crossover points suggested, they bleed off like hell when run out to 180Hz to meet floodlight but the 4xLS1802 in the Kik section that will not be an issue.


Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 19 May 2017 at 9:20am


Posted By: shagnasty
Date Posted: 19 May 2017 at 9:29am
That's the way to run Floodlight!!!!! 5Way-tastic!!!


Posted By: abrupt
Date Posted: 21 May 2017 at 2:58pm
i had the system out last night...8 tse 118 4 tms 4 and it sounded beautiful.so clear and punchy.but i will say for that amount a heavy sub section is needed


Posted By: shagnasty
Date Posted: 21 May 2017 at 6:46pm
Originally posted by abrupt abrupt wrote:

i had the system out last night...8 tse 118 4 tms 4 and it sounded beautiful.so clear and punchy.but i will say for that amount a heavy sub section is needed

Heavy but not slow/slurpy/muddy, the TSE- 18" defined decent low end, to sit on some 1850 based slow horn or bonking reflex box would be a shame....Smile


Posted By: 4D
Date Posted: 21 May 2017 at 6:56pm
Originally posted by abrupt abrupt wrote:

i had the system out last night...8 tse 118 4 tms 4 and it sounded beautiful.so clear and punchy.but i will say for that amount a heavy sub section is needed


can you not run that with the18" in the 118's doing 30hz-70hz and then the 18"s in the tms4s 70hz to 250hz should sound lovely
 


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DMZ. "The bass was intense. Girls were literally running up to stand next to the subs"


Posted By: shagnasty
Date Posted: 21 May 2017 at 7:19pm
The truth is you can split the bands but the TSE/TMS is 300W 18" with a 3" VC, I've used TSE-218s in 30>110 and TMS 80>250 with good results, bit a TSE-218 is like 2.5 TSE-118s (the better mouth coupling make a big difference) and to get "low" you need 6 TSE-218s aside, which IMHO won't sound as solid as 2x718 with the more powerful drivers.

This is what i run for Live stuff :-
http://s1016.photobucket.com/user/shag-nasty/media/IMG_4059.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">

But for Dance gigs I put the 118s on there side and stick another 718 under them (or a couple of 121s and run 5way), the 118s I have aren't strictly 718s (Apart from obviously having a driver missing) they use Fane Neo drivers, are made from 15mm not 18mm and are slightly re-tuned to not drop a lo but run faster...

The other thing 718s give is a MUCH better stack height...






Posted By: shagnasty
Date Posted: 21 May 2017 at 7:26pm
Or from the rear, you can see another bin would help a lot height wise :-

http://s1016.photobucket.com/user/shag-nasty/media/TMS.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">

Sorry Imagine nicked off Arsebook as i don't take too many pics of speakers...


Posted By: cravings
Date Posted: 21 May 2017 at 8:17pm
i went 5 way last night with some X1s. X1s fit nicely under tse218s.. but they may not be what you're after if you always take out bigger stacks.



Posted By: 4D
Date Posted: 21 May 2017 at 8:41pm
Back in the bulldog days first swapped floods for r4.  Plenty of height and lots of dodgy strap to be seen.  But genuine 5way, a pair of epc780's driving the 4ohm 21's 25hz-50hz and three more epc780 on the 218s 35hz-114hz.  The important bit was blanking of the front of the steeldeck riser..





-------------
DMZ. "The bass was intense. Girls were literally running up to stand next to the subs"


Posted By: James Tengo
Date Posted: 21 May 2017 at 9:37pm
Was that the year lab4 played? Sounded great Smile


Posted By: shagnasty
Date Posted: 22 May 2017 at 1:04am
Funily enough, pretty much what I did with the first Flood prototypes, 21s, TSE-218s and Flood, this action did not impress one of the designers, but I got around the "blanking" issue by using more 21s,..

In fact, 6x21, 2x TSE-218s and 2 floods could be the definative "Dance stack"!!

Sorry Ford, missed the fact it was you thatsaid about splitting the 118s and TMS-4 to different bands, back in the day we've all done it, but another factor is if you trash an LS-1802 you will struggle to re-cone it, and as we all know, no 18" goes faster!!!!!!

Smile


Posted By: abrupt
Date Posted: 22 May 2017 at 7:28am
does anyone think that putting 4 tfs780l  under the 118s would be a benefit to me 


Posted By: shagnasty
Date Posted: 22 May 2017 at 8:40am
Hell yeah....Smile

But 8 would be better!!!


Posted By: 4D
Date Posted: 22 May 2017 at 10:48am
Originally posted by shagnasty shagnasty wrote:

Funily enough, pretty much what I did with the first Flood prototypes, 21s, TSE-218s and Flood, this action did not impress one of the designers, but I got around the "blanking" issue by using more 21s,..

In fact, 6x21, 2x TSE-218s and 2 floods could be the definative "Dance stack"!!

Sorry Ford, missed the fact it was you thatsaid about splitting the 118s and TMS-4 to different bands, back in the day we've all done it, but another factor is if you trash an LS-1802 you will struggle to re-cone it, and as we all know, no 18" goes faster!!!!!!

Smile



The trick with all the stuff from the farm is instead of overdriving it, have a bigger pile of boxes instead.


-------------
DMZ. "The bass was intense. Girls were literally running up to stand next to the subs"


Posted By: abrupt
Date Posted: 22 May 2017 at 3:34pm
so it looks like i will be adding 4 tfs780l. on the spec sheet it says to run them from 50hz am i going to be able to use them from 30hz and will there be much lower end benefit.as i dont see why they would state run from 50hz


Posted By: shagnasty
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 7:05am
Bear in mind the TFL-780L was the flood/Flash low end, they never really went upto 180Hz that well to meet the mid-hi boxes, I suspect the 50Hz HPF was to try and re-cycle some energy upto the high end.

I always ran them 30Hz up under TMS (and 5way for Flash flood, cuz I could!!!)


Posted By: Hvedstrup
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 9:02am
Turbo DSP settings for the 721 is 15hz 24db BW hi-pass and 152hz 24db LR hi-pass. The spec sheet isn't used for settings.
 
 
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1r0iFpKlHCNTjGPA8hOHSai9SJb1qtFjf9HwviBbU9JU/edit#gid=2030643958" rel="nofollow - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1r0iFpKlHCNTjGPA8hOHSai9SJb1qtFjf9HwviBbU9JU/edit#gid=2030643958


Posted By: shagnasty
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 9:22am
@15Hz you are throwing a lot of Energy into frequencies only a Whale can hear...

Also given the age of the boxes, likely to demolish them...

I'd start @ 30Hz 24LR, you get more sub with the higher pass anyways....




Posted By: Hvedstrup
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 9:36am
The 15hz hp was something Tony wanted to eliminate sub harmonic distortion and maybe vent the speaker better? The FLH construction keeps excursion under control so that isn't a problem.
 
For example the TSW-718 is only rated for 800 watts RMS, but uses 600 watt drivers. This conservative rating is because of the very low HP in the factory presets and at the time amps couldn't give much more power anyway.

Today you can fry TSW-718 easily if you HP them at 15hz and that's why they eat a Powersoft K6, MC2 E45 or LAB FP6400 all night when they are HP at 30-35hz.
 


Posted By: shagnasty
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 9:53am
With a Lab 6400 you have 100Hz hi-pass built in, couldn't drive a 718 let alone a pair of 21s if their live depended on it... LOL


There is also an issue with excessive X-max in those box, 1 trashing drivers and 2 sounding completely crap, with 30Hz HP you can bin a PL 9.0 into them all night and they love it.

Truth is once we went to Omnidrive I have push HPF up as hi as 55Hz on big systems and got better result than 30Hz especially for bands with 5way running...

All a bit tricky as the loading of the stack into the space has a huge effect on this..


Posted By: mashgwan
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 10:15am
hog scoops work fine 


Posted By: Hvedstrup
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 10:43am
Originally posted by shagnasty shagnasty wrote:


There is also an issue with excessive X-max in those box, 1 trashing drivers and 2 sounding completely crap, with 30Hz HP you can bin a PL 9.0 into them all night and they love it.

Truth is once we went to Omnidrive I have
 
If you limit the box to 800watt RMS/1600 watt peak there is no problems with excessive X-max even with 15hz HP.


Posted By: shagnasty
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 11:38am
There is if you use big amps.... LOL


Posted By: Hvedstrup
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 11:43am
Agree, but a PL9?
 
I would think that it would fry the driver easily driven to just before clip, 30hz or not.


Posted By: shagnasty
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 12:43pm
A PL 9.0 is about right for 6 x 21s, tickles them along beautifully, but bear in mind I also run a pair of them of a Bridged SR 707 which drop more power per driver than a PL 9.0 into 2.6r....


Posted By: abrupt
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 1:49pm
i have 8 tse 118 and 4 tms 4 so its just a case on adding more low end,the sub wouldnt be going any higher than 60hz 


Posted By: 4D
Date Posted: 24 May 2017 at 2:37pm
Methinks that what you really need are 4 tsw721 or 780l flog the old drivers purchase 4 new 21" neo drivers put them in backwards adjust the volume of the rear chamber accordingly and bobs your uncle..

-------------
DMZ. "The bass was intense. Girls were literally running up to stand next to the subs"


Posted By: Anubeatz
Date Posted: 20 February 2020 at 10:12am
Which stands are those under the floods? 



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