Kick/Bass Bin-cabinet for 90-360hz
Printed From: Speakerplans.com
Category: Plans
Forum Name: New Projects Forum
Forum Description: Forum for new speakerplans projects, in memory of Tony Wilkes, 1953 - 2014
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=99444
Printed Date: 24 April 2024 at 11:24am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.06 - https://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Kick/Bass Bin-cabinet for 90-360hz
Posted By: KMB
Subject: Kick/Bass Bin-cabinet for 90-360hz
Date Posted: 11 October 2017 at 1:44pm
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Which bin would be good for 90-360hz? Kick bin
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Replies:
Posted By: Mikkel
Date Posted: 11 October 2017 at 6:22pm
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The MKB 230 and MKH 230 should do 90-380. Never heard them before but the Sorry i meant the MKB, freespeakerplans seem to have the same plan up for both cabs? Anyway i'll post links to plans just to avoid any confusion. http://hornplans.free.fr/mkb230.html" rel="nofollow - http://hornplans.free.fr/mkb230.html http://hornplans.free.fr/mkh230.html" rel="nofollow - http://hornplans.free.fr/mkh230.html |
Posted By: luton_soundman
Date Posted: 11 October 2017 at 9:59pm
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Thats kick, low midrange and midrange if you play to 360hz ------------- Sound Hire/Sales new/used equipment. |
Posted By: bob4
Date Posted: 12 October 2017 at 5:34am
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check this thread: https://forum.speakerplans.com/kickbins-for-hogs_topic99158_page2.html" rel="nofollow - https://forum.speakerplans.com/kickbins-for-hogs_topic99158_page2.html freespeakerplans has a glitch with the mkb/mkh230 plan, they are NOT the same, but actually two different cabs. Someone should tell them to fix that
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Posted By: corell
Date Posted: 12 October 2017 at 1:00pm
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MKB will never play to 380 Hz, even MKH struggles to do so. |
Posted By: KMB
Date Posted: 12 October 2017 at 1:20pm
| so do you know a bin that would play untill 360? |
Posted By: KMB
Date Posted: 12 October 2017 at 1:20pm
| do you know which bin can produces freq untill 360hz? |
Posted By: luton_soundman
Date Posted: 12 October 2017 at 2:31pm
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Why does it need to go to 360hz? What speaker/cab is it meeting? ------------- Sound Hire/Sales new/used equipment. |
Posted By: Peter Jan
Date Posted: 12 October 2017 at 3:40pm
Years ago I made some "C-bins", designed by someone on this forum (Centauri). That design can easily go up to 4-500 Hz, with a 15 "speaker that can go this high. Not an easy build, but it has manageable dimensions and down low it performed also good to 50-60 Hz with ease. Other than that I would suggest a BR cab... |
KMB wrote:Posted By: Mikkel
Date Posted: 12 October 2017 at 5:14pm
good to know. I was only going off the frequency response graphs on the webpage. |
Posted By: bass*en*mass
Date Posted: 12 October 2017 at 6:15pm
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james/timebombs rb212s would work, peter morris diy 12" section too, almost any reflex loaded cab aswell.. 360hz xover is indeed uncommon - what tops do they have to meet, which bass cabs and size of stack/coverage? |
Posted By: KMB
Date Posted: 13 October 2017 at 9:43am
| well i have a 4 way pre amp with kick 92-360hz.. |
Posted By: corell
Date Posted: 13 October 2017 at 1:28pm
SPL wise, they play to 500-600 Hz more or less flat. But they sound shit above a certain frequency, i would say 350 Hz is accetable for the MKH with careful EQing, 300 Hz without. |
Posted By: SouthwestCNC
Date Posted: 13 October 2017 at 2:29pm
Not sure what shipping would be to Belgium. But the rb212 plays 90-370hz flat. 109db@1w1m |
Posted By: Brutus
Date Posted: 13 October 2017 at 3:16pm
| jbl 4512 or jbl 4560 |
Posted By: KMB
Date Posted: 15 October 2017 at 11:14am
Do you have a site or plans for the rb212 because i cant find anything about it on the net. thanks
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Posted By: Timebomb
Date Posted: 15 October 2017 at 11:35am
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The RB212 is a cabinet i designed several years back, ive licensed it to Southwest CNC now. No free plans im afraid sorry. ------------- James Secker facebook.com/soundgearuk James@soundgear.co.uk www.soundgear.co.uk |
Posted By: Keen
Date Posted: 05 November 2017 at 1:10pm
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Posted By: RoadRunnersDust
Date Posted: 06 November 2017 at 6:13am
According to the theory, at 360Hz the kicks could be half a meter off the ground and still be 2Pi... I don't reckon that on-top of a couple of subs would constitute "Free Air" ------------- www.guildfordcablecompany.co.uk" rel="nofollow - www.guildfordcablecompany.co.uk |
Posted By: SouthwestCNC
Date Posted: 09 November 2017 at 9:47am
109db is a half space measurement but yeah the cabs unlikely to be used in free space so it always going to be somewhere between the two and subject to change depending on how you are stacking it and whether it is coupling with other cabs or not. 
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Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 09 November 2017 at 4:45pm
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For Reggae/Dub and that Pre-Amp, 2x15" Reflex, for going above 2x 18" Scoops, is the best sound you will get. Just use very sensitive drivers, OR drivers that have really high power handling (NOT SUB 15s). In Reggae world, 90-400hz, is almost more important, than the sub. And yes, some vocals go down to 90hz. ------------- Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing. |
Posted By: RoadRunnersDust
Date Posted: 09 November 2017 at 4:57pm
Could you contain your BS to your dancestack post?  ------------- www.guildfordcablecompany.co.uk" rel="nofollow - www.guildfordcablecompany.co.uk |
Posted By: corell
Date Posted: 09 November 2017 at 5:02pm
15NDL88, MB15N405, 15ND930 or something alike would be great. |
Posted By: SouthwestCNC
Date Posted: 09 November 2017 at 6:58pm
| I thought the point of a mid kick with high range was to be part of a 4 or even 3 way system, less comb filtering, closer to point source. In an ideal world one way.. how nice that would sound. |
Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 09 November 2017 at 7:19pm
For Reggae purists, the main point of Mid/Kick bin, is realistic reproduction of kick drum, and warm, throaty low mid vocals/mic section. ------------- Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing. |
Posted By: Hemisphere
Date Posted: 09 November 2017 at 7:21pm
In my GSCE history grading bands, the requirement to receive a grade 'G' on one of the papers was to 'reproduce various historical facts, not necessarily related to the question'. Efinque definitely gets a G in sound engineering. ------------- Phase 1: Post on Speakerplans Phase 2: ????? Phase 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zc4bGkU05o" rel="nofollow - Profit! |
Posted By: SouthwestCNC
Date Posted: 09 November 2017 at 8:25pm
Drums are important. But what good are warm drums if the vocalist sounds like he has a sock in his mouth
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Posted By: RoadRunnersDust
Date Posted: 09 November 2017 at 8:27pm
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Hemisphere, you win the internet for today ------------- www.guildfordcablecompany.co.uk" rel="nofollow - www.guildfordcablecompany.co.uk |
Posted By: levyte357-
Date Posted: 10 November 2017 at 11:21am
What should also be of consideration, is the possibility of extending kick cab's usable range, with drivers with custom recones, or regarding drivers with 15"/18" cones, picking those with lighter cone, lower mms (IIRC). ------------- Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing. |
Posted By: SouthwestCNC
Date Posted: 10 November 2017 at 12:58pm
| Heard a lot of the reggae guys are now using FIR, that to me says that reggae sound is definitively evolving. |
Posted By: KMB
Date Posted: 10 November 2017 at 1:08pm
FIR means ?
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Posted By: RoadRunnersDust
Date Posted: 10 November 2017 at 1:13pm
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Finite Impulse Response ------------- www.guildfordcablecompany.co.uk" rel="nofollow - www.guildfordcablecompany.co.uk |
Posted By: smitske96
Date Posted: 10 November 2017 at 1:35pm
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But notice FIR is only a "tool" to get things right. One would be, to get an ideaal phase response, and from that a good impuls-response. But there are drawbacks of course. Using FIR for low frequenties can induce allot of latency.
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Posted By: SouthwestCNC
Date Posted: 10 November 2017 at 2:23pm
That interesting about fir in the low frequencies didnt know that
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Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 10 November 2017 at 3:57pm
A lot is an understatement - below 400Hz you start talking seconds, not milliseconds! Also FIR is a tricky beast, your changes can affect dispersion, tonality, off axis response, all sorts. Easy to make it 'look' great in one position but often it sounds like turd doing that. If you look into it properly, you'll find most of the work done in FIR for manufacturers is 'vanishing point' style crossover filters, a tiny bit of phase correction (which can most often be achieved just fine with IIR), and inter-box array tuning such as beam steering - think d&b arrayprocessing, MLA, K Array, so on. |
Posted By: jazomir
Date Posted: 10 November 2017 at 6:21pm
In addition, try reading some of Dave Gunness's articles or watch his videos - very informative. I must admit, I wasn't aware of the huge latency at the low end using FIR processing until I read this. ------------- For sidefills, can we have two enormous things of a type that might be venerated as Gods by the inhabitants of Easter Island, capable of reaching volumes that would make Beelzebub soil his pants. |
Posted By: smitske96
Date Posted: 10 November 2017 at 9:27pm
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For almost everything is a solution. But with that new solution there are new problems
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Posted By: SouthwestCNC
Date Posted: 11 November 2017 at 1:14pm
| From what i gather FIR is used by various filters. Which one are we talking about here?. I know RePhase uses FIR and that requires REW loop back time alignment to be in place to work. Are you saying that rephase then messes with the alignment? |
Posted By: KMB
Date Posted: 16 November 2017 at 6:41pm
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would this BR030 bin be good? it plays from 20-500 hz so for my bass bin 90-360 would play good no? This bin also exists in 15" version, same frequency range.
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Posted By: Hemisphere
Date Posted: 16 November 2017 at 8:54pm
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Just because a spec sheet says 20-500Hz doesn't mean it can do 20-500Hz. I mean obviously it can't do 20Hz (Elliot Thompson may disagree), and since they're happy to claim it can we could hazard a guess it won't really be able to do 500Hz either. It will play to 360Hz of course, and it might even sound good that high, but as a rule of thumb you don't want to be playing an 18" up there if you can avoid it. 15 would be more appropriate. ------------- Phase 1: Post on Speakerplans Phase 2: ????? Phase 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zc4bGkU05o" rel="nofollow - Profit! |
Posted By: KMB
Date Posted: 23 November 2017 at 8:51pm
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Anther question: If I glue and screw my scoop together at 2-3pm, would it be ok to load the scoop with the driver around 8-9pm and play it out loud?
So with other words, how long should I wait untill the woodconstruction is good (dry)? Thanks! |
Posted By: SouthwestCNC
Date Posted: 23 November 2017 at 9:47pm
| depends on the glue and if its rebated with tight joints it can slow curing. best leaving it 24hours in most cases really. |
Posted By: mauisurf
Date Posted: 12 December 2017 at 10:49am
Efinque... HALP! I started a thread and your are required for all the ansewrs supposedley. 
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Posted By: KMB
Date Posted: 04 January 2018 at 7:10am
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Hi guys, Thanks for helping Can you tell me which type of screws i need to mount my 18" woofer into my mogale superscooper? Thanks! |
Posted By: parabox
Date Posted: 04 January 2018 at 8:51am
| So I have been talking to some cats on the east coast of the us about some very impressive planer kicks that to be honest are just plain hot I personally dropped some coin for plans and I'm very excited to. Throw em together |
Posted By: Futur3boy
Date Posted: 24 October 2018 at 2:26pm
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Hi, Any idea where can I get rb212's made these days? Also can you tell me the drivers they take? Looking to cover 90 to about 250ish and seems like this is a good option. Also do you know the dimensions of the box? Thanks for any info. I got in touch with southwest cnc, but their site is down and I got no response via facebook.
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Posted By: RoadRunnersDust
Date Posted: 24 October 2018 at 2:55pm
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Jon from SouthwestCNC has the only license to build them AFAIK :)
I’ll drop him a message see what’s up ------------- www.guildfordcablecompany.co.uk" rel="nofollow - www.guildfordcablecompany.co.uk |
Posted By: RoadRunnersDust
Date Posted: 24 October 2018 at 3:00pm
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For 90-250 you could also use the old Turbosound TSE cabinets (Scream Audio Builds on FB have plans for a couple of bins that should also cover 90-250 reasonably well) ------------- www.guildfordcablecompany.co.uk" rel="nofollow - www.guildfordcablecompany.co.uk |
Posted By: gen0me
Date Posted: 24 October 2018 at 3:15pm
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rb212 sounded very nice to my taste :) ------------- I appreciate every like :)) https//www.facebook.com/genomesoundsystems Mixes: https://www.mixcloud.com/gen-ome/ |
Posted By: Timebomb
Date Posted: 24 October 2018 at 3:33pm
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Jon / SouthwestCNC no longer has the licence to build the RB212s. ------------- James Secker facebook.com/soundgearuk James@soundgear.co.uk www.soundgear.co.uk |
Posted By: RoadRunnersDust
Date Posted: 24 October 2018 at 4:05pm
Well that would explain that Who does now, james?  ------------- www.guildfordcablecompany.co.uk" rel="nofollow - www.guildfordcablecompany.co.uk |
Posted By: Timebomb
Date Posted: 24 October 2018 at 4:26pm
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No one im afraid, i might do a V2 version at some point and manufacture a batch but ive got several other designs to go into production first so its hard to find the time. ------------- James Secker facebook.com/soundgearuk James@soundgear.co.uk www.soundgear.co.uk |
Posted By: Futur3boy
Date Posted: 24 October 2018 at 5:21pm
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Ah there we go, thanks for the info. Any other suggestions for a mid bass box, maybe even 120 or 150 upwards. Still not figured out what sub I'm going to use either, but working downwards and looking for something to go under community sls920's. They seem to need a fair bit of help below 250. More compact the better, maybe even a single 12?
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Posted By: Keen
Date Posted: 26 October 2018 at 9:27am
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How does that work, did you buy the licence back? just curious
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Posted By: Sinai Sound
Date Posted: 26 October 2018 at 9:36am
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What about the Peter morris PM60 or PM90 design, but with no compression driver in? I guess some of the box calculation has taken into account the volume taken by the comp I guess But the double 12" section plays 100hz - 650hz
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Posted By: bass*en*mass
Date Posted: 26 October 2018 at 5:50pm
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good call sinai, guess using 3-4 of those will allow to lower the xover a tad, afaik they are tuned to 78hz but will exceed xmax at full pelt below 100hz.. rb212s are, indeed, doing fine covering the asked passband too, shame no one builts them/they didnt manage to reach more popularity..
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Posted By: RoadRunnersDust
Date Posted: 26 October 2018 at 6:13pm
The dual 12” of the PM60s are completely gutless in my experience 
------------- www.guildfordcablecompany.co.uk" rel="nofollow - www.guildfordcablecompany.co.uk |
Posted By: Futur3boy
Date Posted: 26 October 2018 at 6:21pm
| Think I need to try a few things. Been offered some tse115's which is a good first port of call going by comments here. Or those super planar kicks look interesting. |
Posted By: RoadRunnersDust
Date Posted: 27 October 2018 at 1:11am
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Do they happen to be poorly painted Funky Purple and loaded with LS-1503?
------------- www.guildfordcablecompany.co.uk" rel="nofollow - www.guildfordcablecompany.co.uk |
Posted By: Keen
Date Posted: 30 October 2018 at 6:11am
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Posted By: smitske96
Date Posted: 30 October 2018 at 7:55am
How would you think they add up then? It's designed as a top cabinet only, and clearly states it's not fully hornloaded down to 80 Hz.
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Posted By: RoadRunnersDust
Date Posted: 30 October 2018 at 11:06am
I mean it’s gutless in the band it’s designed to work in! ------------- www.guildfordcablecompany.co.uk" rel="nofollow - www.guildfordcablecompany.co.uk |
Posted By: Jo bg
Date Posted: 30 October 2018 at 11:38am
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i think we (intended as most operators on this forum, but with due exceptions) are used to a different sound, with a more prominent bass than most people on psw and soundforums, who usually gather more to rock or other live genres with less bass buildup. another example is danley sm80, it gets a lot of praises for live but i doubt anyone here would use a 140hz top without a dedicated kick for a heavy dancing night. so maybe gutless is just too flat, good for faithful reproduction, but doesn't kick like a mule. maybe i remember wrong, but wasn't element audio using pm60 on the sides on a carnival float this year, but with added kickbin guts, so with a highr cutoff? if so, anyone can comment on their sound in that enviroment? |
Posted By: RoadRunnersDust
Date Posted: 30 October 2018 at 11:53am
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Good point but my main bag is rock/live and I still think the 12” section of them is entirely useless 😅
------------- www.guildfordcablecompany.co.uk" rel="nofollow - www.guildfordcablecompany.co.uk |
Posted By: bass*en*mass
Date Posted: 30 October 2018 at 7:48pm
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care to get into details "RoadRunnersDust"? Which Setup have you tried, what is it that you missed 100-600hz, do you know of a similar sized option to cover the passband better, more efficiently in the same size? curious what exactly you mean with "gutless"
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Posted By: RoadRunnersDust
Date Posted: 31 October 2018 at 1:17am
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Sure "bass*en*mass" Sat on top of a pile of 721s they consistently sounded like they may as well not have been there. No punch or impact in the lower end of their response and for the little you could hear of them as they approached the crossover to the BMS they sounded very boxy and thin. Not made any better with a couple of 215s between them and the 21s. As far as a different option for covering 100-600, no. It's tricky to compare something that simply doesn't work to an effective solution. As far as a nominal "upper-bass through to central-mid" bandwidth goes, they'd get absolutely annihilated by a pair of 12" Flood Low-Mids. ------------- www.guildfordcablecompany.co.uk" rel="nofollow - www.guildfordcablecompany.co.uk |
Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 31 October 2018 at 1:36am
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Sounds like poor alignment of a ported horn LF section with a bandpass horn to me, not very complimentary phase before you add filters for a start. They’re not gonna kick you in the nads but they’ll have a snap and there’ll be some LF content for warmth. Again, better crossover and alignment helps make that shine. |
Posted By: RoadRunnersDust
Date Posted: 31 October 2018 at 2:48am
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Fair point, Kyle. Even on their own with the BMS they just sounded a bit "not-there". Obviously disparate levels but on a even-tonality contest even an Sx300 would run down to 100Hz more convincingly ------------- www.guildfordcablecompany.co.uk" rel="nofollow - www.guildfordcablecompany.co.uk |
Posted By: Sinai Sound
Date Posted: 31 October 2018 at 9:03am
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As I already had a big pile of 12NDL76 doing nothing, and already am using 4594HE in my boxes I've had a mate build me a PM90 So I can see for myself whether it's actually good or not
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Posted By: Timebomb
Date Posted: 31 October 2018 at 9:15am
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I tried a couple but i never got a ported midbass horn to work and sound nice, also as Kyle mentions there will be steep phase distortion at the lower end of there pass band which could make alignment quite tricky, i would try very steep 48dB/oct filters so there is as little overlap as possible as the phase response of the turbos and PM60s in that range will be quite different, so best to align them over a narrow band to minimise any destructive interference. ------------- James Secker facebook.com/soundgearuk James@soundgear.co.uk www.soundgear.co.uk |
Posted By: fatfreddiescat
Date Posted: 31 October 2018 at 9:30am
| EAW KF850 has 15” horn section that will cover that range, Pete 'Nova' built his equivalent of the 850 with 2 x 12’ s facing each other, similar to the early Martin 215, Pete's approach would probs be worth exploring although he ported his to use as a one box solution but doesn't have to be ported. If you are OK with horn response then it shouldn't be too hard to build a box that will give a second order Butterworth type response HP roll off at 90Hz that you can tune to LR4 with a B2 at 90Hz |
Posted By: Futur3boy
Date Posted: 02 November 2018 at 11:13am
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Yes roadrunner they were, and some other copys as well. Going to get some usb2's this weekend then will see what, if anything, I want between them and the sls920's. Only really tested the 920's at home so far, but found they get a bit honky up to 200 when the bass gets driven on the mixer. On the other hand I've read about people using them well with just usb2's so will test it out before getting MORE speakers :) Might be after some more sls920's if all goes well, if anyone has any they want to part with? Thanks for any info as well guys, newbie trying to find my way.
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