Reverse Polarity?
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Category: General
Forum Name: Newbie Discussion
Forum Description: Newbie Discussion/Questions. Look less stupid here...
URL: https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=99448
Printed Date: 18 April 2024 at 11:19am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.06 - https://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Reverse Polarity?
Posted By: AJ113
Subject: Reverse Polarity?
Date Posted: 12 October 2017 at 7:58am
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I was lazily reading through my Tannoy B400 user's manual when I came across this little gem hidden away in a small corner: Important : always invert the B400 polarity if used with standard reflex loaded loudspeakers 1. So if I use my B400s (folded horns) in combination with reflex boxes I have to switch the polarity? Does this include the mids/tops if they are reflex? Or is it only referring to bass units? 2. Can anyone explain in layman's terms why this is so? I'm guessing it's beause they are horn loaded from the back of the loudspeakers, and therefore would effectively be out of phase with front loaded cabinets? 3. What is the easiest way of reversing the polarity? Swap the connections around at one end of a Speakon cable? |
Replies:
Posted By: Conanski
Date Posted: 13 October 2017 at 12:59am
| The idea was that with reversed polarity the horns would "better" sum with reflex boxes but the reality is horns need a lot more processing than a simple polarity flip to properly sum with reflex boxes. |
Posted By: AJ113
Date Posted: 13 October 2017 at 3:27pm
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Would I be right in thinking the simplest way is to set the reflex boxes further back from the horns? |
Posted By: Earplug
Date Posted: 13 October 2017 at 3:44pm
Yes, that´s more or less it. You need to measure the horn length and place the relex cabs back that amount. ------------- Earplugs Are For Wimps! |
AJ113 wrote:Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 13 October 2017 at 5:28pm
Sure. If you want to be wrong. |
Posted By: AJ113
Date Posted: 13 October 2017 at 5:39pm
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Just playing devil's advocate here a bit: If I had say, two horns and two reflex cabs, and I set them up as a centre cluster, reflex cabs side by side and a horn either side of them, would that create a line/array, without the need to actually physically line them up in an arc? |
Posted By: AJ113
Date Posted: 13 October 2017 at 6:48pm
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Posted By: Conanski
Date Posted: 13 October 2017 at 11:28pm
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What reflex boxes do you have and what kind of processing(EQ, crossover) do you have available? According to the specs the B400 is only usable down to 60hz so it's entirely possible your reflex boxes could go significantly lower. If that is the case then using the b400s as kick bins crossed higher than the reflex subs may be the way to go. |
Posted By: corell
Date Posted: 13 October 2017 at 11:31pm
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Measure Group Delay (or phase) around the x-over frequency. You will most probably notice that a BR enclosure is far from 0ms group delay. Actually, in some cases where i had to mix FLH and BR (because customer wanted me to), i had to delay the FLH to the BR for the best solution, because it was a BR with a very high Q tuning. |
Posted By: Darkstar
Date Posted: 14 October 2017 at 5:20am
Because he always does and repeating the same things over and over can be tiresome, there's plenty of threads with this topic in which he pointed out how to do it right. Problem is the search function on this forum is a mess, just tried finding a link for you and I can bet I wouldn't find it after a full day of searching. In short you need equipment that can measure all you need to align your speakers, going the rough way can only help mitigate cancellation but will likely mess up other things. ------------- Bass =/= Enough |
Posted By: AJ113
Date Posted: 14 October 2017 at 8:44am
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Posted By: AJ113
Date Posted: 14 October 2017 at 9:22am
So if the B400s and the reflex cabs were operating at separate frequencies, presumably the phase problem is reduced to a minimum? And thinking on... As you say, the B400s are only useable down to 60Hz (although you would never believe that when listening to them!), so does it follow that there would be little in the way of phase issues below 60Hz, regardless of anything else? |
Posted By: Conanski
Date Posted: 14 October 2017 at 5:43pm
No... and that gets to one of the big misunderstandings about speaker interactions, the area of influence for any given speaker system extends both above and below it's rated range of operation. Properly aligning these two speaker systems requires several things, delay for gross time alignment, EQ for response shaping both inside and outside the intended range of operation, independent level control for each output, and after all that is applied perhaps some phase adjustment. And figuring out exactly how much of each of those things is needed requires some test equipment, so this is not a trivial exercise if you want it done correctly. |
Posted By: Darkstar
Date Posted: 14 October 2017 at 6:39pm
You were not the subject of said snide remark, it was a member who has supposedly been around just as much as him here and I am pretty sure they've had a debate on this kind of topic already. Even if it doesn't change anything, and I'm not Toasty's lawyer, I don't feel like I have the right to judge as telling someone he is wrong doesn't necessarily have to be a source of friction. Back to the on topic, I agree it doesn't sound very constructive but he's got a point: phase switching is not to be confused with time delay and moving boxes around can lead to other issues unless previously measured. You can choose to go by ear, but it can be very misleading and unpractical if you move the boxes around different venues where loudspeaker placement can be subject to change. Polarity switch in your case seems to be the fastest way to align said subwoofers with reflex boxes, although that doesn't take measurement out of the equation independently of box typology. ------------- Bass =/= Enough |
Posted By: Earplug
Date Posted: 14 October 2017 at 7:06pm
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"You were not the subject of said snide remark, it was a member who has supposedly been around just as much as him here" Yup, that´ll be me. And quite honestly, I couldn´t really give a shite. I know it´s not a simple matter to get cabs running in time and phase, but you have to start somewhere. I shift cabs around with my LMS all the time and also have SMAART to help, but that´s all money and the OP obviously just wanted something rough and ready. Not everyone can afford Lake, SMAART, etc, etc. This happens so often on here. Someone asks a simple question and within half a dozen posts, they´re being told to buy Powersoft K20´s, BMS coaxials and Lake processing. A bit over the top really. ------------- Earplugs Are For Wimps! |
Posted By: AJ113
Date Posted: 15 October 2017 at 9:22am
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Posted By: mitchiemasha
Date Posted: 15 October 2017 at 7:13pm
Simple... Play a test tone at the cross over frequency, equal volume to both cabs. Phase invert 1 speaker incorrectly, adjust the delay time until you get most cancellation, it's a process of back and forth to get it as fine tuned as possible. Reflip the polarity. Now your cabs will be completely inline.
No need for fancy equipment to measure all you need to align them. I suppose the same method could be done by moving the actual cab but it would be awkward. When you match the volumes accurately the cancellation sticks out like a sore thumb. It's clear as day and removes all the guess work. |
Posted By: mitchiemasha
Date Posted: 15 October 2017 at 7:27pm
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Another thing to remember. Inverting polarity doesn't change the time domain. I put some nice diagrams on here some time ago.
Edit: I dug the link out. Was worth a reshare. http://www.mediafire.com/view/?smcmu264hxjux3q" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: AJ113
Date Posted: 15 October 2017 at 8:30pm
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Posted By: AJ113
Date Posted: 15 October 2017 at 8:54pm
Presumably, once the optimum delay time has been established, this could be translated into physical distance for any future operations? |
Posted By: mitchiemasha
Date Posted: 15 October 2017 at 11:28pm
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That's a lot of questions... How does changing the polarity help? Good question. I have my theories and beliefs to why this is said but it's outside my knowledge to be sure. When you say both cabs, you mean one B400 and one BR? (I have two of each)? You do the 2 cabs you are trying to align with each other. Lows with the Mids. Then do the other 2. Which will likely be the same setting. How do I do that? Do you mean reverse the polarity?
Yes, you'd have to experiment to see which way was actually incorrect. Adjust what delay time? Do you mean set up a delay to the B400s? You should buy a DSP, Driverack/Ultradrive etc! If not... doing the test tone at cross over frequency will still work with physically moving the speaker. How do you go about accurately matching the volume? Do you mean measure the spl at a given distance? You could do that but I find i don't need too, even if the volume isn't matched perfectly, the point of most cancellation will still be the correct delay time. Setting the test tone to the same volume by ear is enough. You can even adjust the volumes at most cancellation, to get more crenelation, this will result in a better matched volume. Experiment with the method and everything will become clear, you'd have no need to ask these questions. Presumably, once the optimum delay time has been established, this could be translated into physical distance for any future operations? No. if you set your speakers up in a different position, you'd need to do it again. If it's mid tops on bins, mark out where they sit, that will be the same every time. |
Posted By: AJ113
Date Posted: 16 October 2017 at 8:19am
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Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 17 October 2017 at 4:34am
Room EQ Wizard is free, the manual is excellent and there’s a ton of resources online for free. Hell, there’s even a guide on how to setup with REW and the soundcard in any PC on this very forum by odc40r. Timo Beckman also has a ton of videos. As do Meyer. Or Nathan Lively has articles, podcasts, and a cheap as chips PDF with that process and more. Mic wise, even an SM58 would do better than a bloody tape measure. If you can’t manage that then the invert polarity / cancellation method can get you in the right ballpark but you should use ‘warbles’ not a single sine wave. Google them. Again, free. By the way, a POLARITY flip does cause a shift in the phase response of a speaker, it’s more complex than that diagram makes out. You can see that easily in - you guessed it- REW. You don’t have to spend megabucks to do something better than guesswork at best and flat out lies at worst. Telling someone an answer that stops them learning further is just ridiculous, sound is a science that allows for art to be practised, and any time you tell somebody a process that seems super simple - because the simple answers are often the wrong ones - rob somebody of the agency to follow a scientific method and get the best results. |
Posted By: Earplug
Date Posted: 17 October 2017 at 9:30am
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Ok, yes, plenty of free resourses out there - although Timo Beckman´s videos are far from simple to understand, as is a lot of the time/phase stuff. It can be difficult to get your head around what is actually happening. People will learn as they go along and at their own pace. Not everyone running a system is that technically minded, nor interested in getting into the physics of sound propagation. They just want some simple advice. The original question was about switching polarity on the B400´s when used with reflex cabs. As you say yourself, that is not the answer - there are many other factors to consider. Time delay - either physically or electronically - is far better. ------------- Earplugs Are For Wimps! |
Posted By: mitchiemasha
Date Posted: 18 October 2017 at 1:43am
Care to expand. All one is doing is flipping the +/-, how can it change? With an actual sound waveform, the reverse of the wave isn't an exact copy of the other side like a sine wave but i'm curious to where the phase shift is. it's not shifted, it's inverted. Or is it because the actual speaker won't work the same in reverse. You don't have to explain. Links will do. Thanks in advance. Edit: Wait a min. toastyghost... slight confusion there. It is exactly the diagram. What the diagram shows is flipping the polarity will not introduces any time delay. Obviously the phase has changed, in regards to its original self, it is inverted like 180 but not 180 out of phase in the form of a time delay phase shift, which is the point of the diagram. |
Posted By: mitchiemasha
Date Posted: 18 October 2017 at 2:51am
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Warbles... Yes, I just googled that and watched the video. Obviously, when using a sine wave, if moving to the next cycle one will be inphase but out of time, quite like the 360 on my diagram. The same for 180 out of phase, polarity reversed, will be in phase but out of time (I might add that to the diagram to address this issue). https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=HXLAzVDCf2Q" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=HXLAzVDCf2Q It took a while for the ball to drop. I felt he could of explained the issue a bit better at the start, more like i did above. I was confused at first but had no reason to be. As it's obvious! Knowing which cycle you are in phase with, to know if you are in time or not is a problem with the sine wave test (which can be seen on my diagram) My current set up Has a Drive rack PA, only 10ms so you only get 1 cycle to match up anyways. If the subs/tops are any further apart than what can be corrected within 1 cycle, it's tough. For reflex loaded stacked ontop of each other, moving to the first cancellation, with a sine wave test, should be intime but you are right it would be guess work. How would one know they weren't actually 180 out of phase and polarity inverted, same result. My only guesswork there would be, if the divers are almost in line physically, visually and one flips the polarity, if you get some summation, this would be the correct polarity, if you got some cancellation this would be the incorrect polarity, now you could move to the first most cancellation point. Which way you'd go would depend on which one was further forward or back (Edit:The ports are out of phase anyways so there's always that issue to throw in the mix, lol!) Disclaimer... The system i currently work on is out of time and badly tuned. The bar speakers are prosounds (or were! they died along time ago, now they have fane tweeters, paudio drivers, original cross overs (urgh)) Even if I wanted to align these I couldn't. The dance area has 1x Mach dual 15 1xRcf art 300's, with the same doing the other area. I can't align 1 with out disaligning the other. Not that i can go in all day testing sound, it serves food too. To the owners it's just not important. |
Posted By: Earplug
Date Posted: 18 October 2017 at 10:21am
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I´ve used one of these for basic polarity checking: https://www.thomann.de/es/phonic_paa3_personal_audioassistant.htm?ref=search_rslt_phonic+paa3_180832_0" rel="nofollow - https://www.thomann.de/es/phonic_paa3_personal_audioassistant.htm?ref=search_rslt_phonic+paa3_180832_0 Quick and easy. ------------- Earplugs Are For Wimps! |
Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 18 October 2017 at 12:54pm
And as mentioned, polarity is not phase, so at best, you're sort of in the right city but far, far from the right building let alone street. |
Posted By: Earplug
Date Posted: 18 October 2017 at 1:46pm
No, the PAA3 DOES check phase and time alignment by sending a pulse through the system and making sure that everything is running in time. I know I said 'polarity', but meant phase, ok, silly error. RTM and it is plain. And mitchiemasha, flipping the polarity doesn´t help when you really need a phase shift. Time alignment will be out. Some of the frequencies (bass end) may sum, but will still be out of phase. ------------- Earplugs Are For Wimps! |
Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 18 October 2017 at 1:48pm
| Yeah, I owned one, and no, it doesn't display phase nor handle alignment. |
Posted By: Earplug
Date Posted: 18 October 2017 at 2:02pm
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Then you must have owned a different one to what I´ve used. Page 17 of the manual. Maybe you didn´t get that far. Too much too read, hey... ------------- Earplugs Are For Wimps! |
Posted By: mitchiemasha
Date Posted: 18 October 2017 at 3:15pm
WOW. I never said anywhere that it did. Did you see my Diagram? "Time alignment will be out." this is exactly what i was contributing. |
Posted By: mitchiemasha
Date Posted: 18 October 2017 at 3:33pm
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Toastyghost... back to those Warbles. I'm not going to be able to tell the difference when listening to a inphase but 2nd/3rd cycle misalign, especially once factoring in the room (not that I class an inphase out of cycle wave as true phase anyways). What has been overlooked here is a tape measure and some basic understandings of sound. The low frequencies are so large one would have to make a colossal mistake to be aligning the sine wave to the 2nd/3rd cycle. Especially so for stacked systems. I can see it being an issue on larger system, more spread out. |
Posted By: Earplug
Date Posted: 18 October 2017 at 5:39pm
Ok, just clarifying for the OP and original question with the Tannoys. This has all gone off at a tangent (as usual).  ------------- Earplugs Are For Wimps! |
Posted By: toastyghost
Date Posted: 18 October 2017 at 6:21pm
A tape measure doesn't take into account the combined response of the driver, the cabinet / horn, any venting, bandpass elements, or filtering (EQ or highpass / lowpass) and their affect on the phase response of the box. It gets even harder to do without FFT when you try to maintain being within +/- 30 degrees for 1 octave either side of the acoustic (not electronic) crossover point, because subwoofers in particular are devices that are very stretched in time, even the very very best ones, and some much worse than others. Here's a simple video showing why this is important: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXLAzVDCf2Q" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXLAzVDCf2Q And from the same guy, an explanation on why warbles are better than the sine wave method, including links to download them: https://www.merlijnvanveen.nl/en/study-hall/110-bink-audio-test-warbles" rel="nofollow - https://www.merlijnvanveen.nl/en/study-hall/110-bink-audio-test-warbles Honestly, the barrier to entry for REW is so stupidly low that there's really not much excuse not to at least try it. A recent-ish old laptop or computer will do, software is free, and an adequate quality mic that plugs straight into USB is about £60 if you order directly (MiniDSP UMIK-1). If you have access to even a crappy old M Audio 2ch interface, with phantom, then the Behringer mic is what, £30? The REW manual in PDF, and the website, are exceptionally helpful and simple to follow too: https://www.roomeqwizard.com/help/help_en-GB/html/gettingstarted.html How about a real world example? This is SMAART but the data would be pretty much the same in REW, just look different. This is a reflex top, dual driver midrange and HF comp on a horn, aligning to a BPH sub/kick section. The mid and high section of the top was already aligned with FFT previously, without subs. First up, the result that was achieved by somebody doing it by ear:  Doesn't look that bad eh? Until you run both cabinets at the same time and make a trace – looks fine at the place they likely ran the sine wave, say 80-100Hz, but then you see the holes punched in the lower midrange and the lower response of the sub:  Actually measuring the boxes from no relatively delay, with mic on the floor to counter reflections (hence the laps in the HF response which aren't relevant to this part of the process), and adjusting not only the delay but the electronic crossover point and filter type got us these nicely overlapping traces:  Which results in this combined result in purple:  Now, I know what combination I'd prefer to listen to… |
Posted By: mitchiemasha
Date Posted: 18 October 2017 at 9:48pm
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I watched that video. I even linked it already. I think we're having a misalignment ourselves. I don't dispute anything in the video. What i think you've missed is the "1st cycle, 2nd cycle". The only issue with the sine wave test is you'd have no way of knowing which cycle you are on. That is all he is showing it that video. However, if you aligned the sub using a sine wave test and it was the correct cycle, the sub and the mids would be intime just as much as the warble test or any other test, hence a tape measure. The 2nd cycle, in phase but out of time is around 7 meters of incorrect delay. No one in their right mind would do this. The maths allone would set off alarm bells... especially how a simple Driverack wouldn't even give you enough ms to achieve it. What he is saying is right but so much is being over looked here. Any extra issues due to port alignment and the delay of the frequencies at 30/40hz is an issue with the cab itself. No adjustments we can make will fix that. all we are doing is matching the main part of the sub to the mains. The room itself is doing so much damage to the audio, which is pretty much impossible to get perfect, regardless to the pseudoscience people believe. I'm not sure any impulse response, fft or smart will give you a true image of the speakers. i don't know this though as I've only use REW once, in my studio. I have a mic specifically for it and i read the endless links supplied by the DBX forum. Just to be clear. If using the sine wave test 100hz, xover at 100hz and you get the cycle match correct. You will not get the issues that the video is pointing out. Your sub will be in the best possible alignment with the mids, that can be achieved. However, the room itself may destroy your response due to room modes, nulls etc at and around the xover frequency. But please continue. |
Posted By: mitchiemasha
Date Posted: 18 October 2017 at 9:59pm
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I will add... I did say it to the manager at the venue i work at, last time i had a winge. "unless i get Ned down and do some proper testing it will never be right, we're just messing about in the dark" "Even then it still won't be right, speaker position is wrong, room is wrong, the equipment installed won't allow it to be made right (or even improved). There are a few obvious changes that could be made but it's just embarrassing... I'm always waffling on on forums... and the quality of the sound does not reference my knowledge" What is one to do? you should of seen the sub the owners bought until i put mine in, 15" £150... What! seriously? it rattled itself to bits. Anyone with half a brain would know that wasn't going to do, the cheapest in the store, many pounds lower than the rest, we all know the wine annolgy... Sorry... Rant over, lol!!!!!! |
Posted By: mitchiemasha
Date Posted: 18 October 2017 at 10:39pm
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I know it's a lot already but... Just to be extra clear. When he says this. "Listening to a single sine wave will not reveal this as is proven time and again by attendants of my seminar because we're not exposed to neighboring frequencies. Should you decide to align by ear then at least use a signal that exposes you to all frequencies of interest like Michael Bink Knowles Audio Test's warbles." The reason the neighbouring frequencies are important is, an incorrect CYCLE alignment will be exposed by the lower or higher frequency not aligning. However, if the cycle alignment was correct and you used the sine wave method, the neighbouring frequencies will be intime. You'd have the same result as the other method. If your speakers are close together one isn't going to add a delay time big enough to hit the 1st cycle inphase, out of time, never mind the 2nd. The main issue we'd hit is more like 50/50 over the polarity choice. When he says "As long as both speakers are producing the same signal there are an infinite amount of possibilities for being in phase (either with or without polarity inversion) and not on time. Whereas there's only one possible outcome where both speakers are in phase and on time" He is seriously exaggerating the "infinite amount of possibilities" to suit his argument. Although he is correct, no one would move to those "infinite" possibilities of alignment. The 'tape measure and basic understanding of sound' will give you a ball park figure with in the range of 1 cycle. You'd only get 1 cancellation to set it to before moving out of that range... Well 2 if you include getting the polarity wrong. On concert systems, line arrays, it 's a different story but we're talking about simple stacks. The wave length of the frequency is too long to warrant an engineer putting in the wrong time delay, to land in the next cycle, where the next null would be. I hope that makes sense. It's took a lot of thought to try express it. Just to be double clear... If using the sine wave method, if you are on 0 cycle and have a null with incorrect polarity, when you flip polarity you will be on "Whereas there's only one possible outcome where both speakers are in phase and on time" I hope that helps. Any further discussion is welcomed. I appreciate the graphs, thank you. |
Posted By: AJ113
Date Posted: 18 October 2017 at 11:08pm
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So these are my options: 1 Move the reflex bins back a bit and hope for the best. 2 Measure the length of the B400 horns and movr the reflex bins back by that amount 3 Set up a centrecluster with the reflex bins in the middle so that they form a time-delayed arc 4 Reverse the polarity on the B400s (After all, this is what the manual instructs) 5 Do nothing To further confound the issue, The B400s are not only folded horns but they have rear-facing ports. What does make them? Bass reflex folded horn bandpass cabs? And does this fact change anything that has been discussed? I still can't work out why the manufacturers would advise to switch polarity when that doesn't affect the time domain, which - as I understand it - is the main issue. |
Posted By: Conanski
Date Posted: 19 October 2017 at 5:13am
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Option 6. Don't use the reflex and horns together. It's always best to not mix different types of subs and now you know why. The ports on the B400s may have just been a cheeky way of getting a little more lowend out of them.. or perhaps a way to cool the drivers a little better, but in both cases it's doubtful there would be enough of a difference over sealed chambers to justify the increased risk of destroying the drivers by driving them below tuning. That right there is another reason not to run these from the same output as the reflex bins, they may work fine at moderate power levels but at war volume you may just destroy the drivers if you feed them a 40hz tone. |
Posted By: AJ113
Date Posted: 19 October 2017 at 8:08am
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Posted By: mitchiemasha
Date Posted: 19 October 2017 at 3:27pm
What ever you do. To you it will sound Ok. But it will be wrong. It's impossible to do an A/B comparison to know which actually sounds better but you will believe and convince your self of such! Personally i'd of simply done as the manual said. Flip the polarity. Then with each passing week, as i learned i would of tried new things correcting for my (in this case your) mistakes. Don't be that fool that 'thinks' it right. I've been forced my life to run a mismash of systems but i never once pretended to myself. You're not going to miraculously fall onto a really good match up or be able to correct all it's errors. The compromises at the end of the day are yours to make. |
Posted By: AJ113
Date Posted: 20 October 2017 at 1:46am
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Posted By: mitchiemasha
Date Posted: 21 October 2017 at 2:26pm
I was worried that you would think that way... Although it's way to hard for me to explain why everything about what just wrote IS wrong. The main problem is you have no way of knowing if it's the best it can be. It's impossible to A/B. Perhaps 1 day you'll understand. If it sounds OK it'll do... but it is wrong! Some of us ain't happy with it'll do. I was always never happy with the sound, even when everyone else loved it. I have a friend who thinks like you! It's took me many years to convince him of how bad he did things. He's slowly starting to learn. |
Posted By: Conanski
Date Posted: 21 October 2017 at 3:28pm
OK here is another fact of loudspeakers you don't seem to understand. Every speaker system type besides a sealed box is designed with a lower tuning frequency, that is the lowest frequency the system can handle at any significant power level. Below tuning the box no longer controls the driver and it acts as if in free air, so it's power handling is greatly reduced.. probably to something like 50-100w. So if you apply a 40hz signal at full power to a speaker with a 60hz tuning you will smash the drivers voice coil into the backplate and destroy it. For this reason you only have 2 choices, run the reflex and horns at different frequencies or limit all of them to 60hz and above if only using 1 sub passband. |
Posted By: AJ113
Date Posted: 21 October 2017 at 3:59pm
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Posted By: AJ113
Date Posted: 21 October 2017 at 4:18pm
Ok, but that raises more questions: 1. Why doesn't the Tannoy B400 manual warn about sending frequencies lower than 60Hz to the cabs? 2. I have hammered these cabs at full output with a Studiomaster Ax 3500 many times. I have never made any effort to control sub-60Hz frequencies, and they are still working just fine. So why haven't the drivers self-destructed as described above? |
Posted By: JonB67
Date Posted: 21 October 2017 at 5:35pm
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Answer to 1 is because it assumes you've read the rest of the handbook and applied the active crossovers they recommend. Answer to 2 probably program material and level id guess. Answer to 3 is if you're happy then good for you. Carry on as is. If you want to learn and improve then dig deeper into the theory. |
Posted By: Conanski
Date Posted: 21 October 2017 at 5:42pm
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Posted By: mitchiemasha
Date Posted: 21 October 2017 at 7:21pm
Some of us strive to be better. Now isn't that why you are here in the first place? |
Posted By: AJ113
Date Posted: 25 October 2017 at 9:20am
If I can set up my rig so that everybody loves the sound, I am content with that, I'll leave the eternal search for sonic nirvana to others. |
Posted By: mitchiemasha
Date Posted: 26 October 2017 at 3:12am
Our selves. I'll try word it differently. Wouldn't it be a shame to spend all that time, money and effort getting your system as it is, only for it to be running no where near the performance it could be. You could have twice the bass with half the speakers. Adding more when all it is doing is cancelling the other. Or worse, riding your system closer to damage. People will still love it, people will still have fun but how much of that extra kit is wasted? How much of the time carrying it all in, setting it all up is wasted? Are your tweaks improving the sound or destroying it? Remember we're still reacting off these words "What ever you do. To you it will sound OK. But it will be wrong." Which i used to try open a thought process. You've focused on that line too much and ignored the other words wrapped around it. A system is never truly right. It's a trade off of compromises you as the engineer have to make. I grew up on 'flat pack raves' we did everything the hardway and the wrong way. And, it was fun! We had no option, we had no money. It's always been a mash up. Most will simply say no but i fully understood when you said
Yes... People love it, job done but... |
Posted By: AJ113
Date Posted: 30 October 2017 at 3:42pm
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