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Proline 3000 - People blowing drivers or Amp

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Jack_The_Ripper View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jack_The_Ripper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 October 2018 at 8:45pm
I say regardless of how good Chinese amps are on subs (Chinese companies I mean) I think you're always best off going for a decent manufacturer like Crown, Crest, Peavey, QSC, Lab Gruppen etc...I'm sticking with my QSC RMX4050HD amps for my subs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote junoprobelaunch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 October 2018 at 9:49pm
Bought one of these a while for running 4x PD186s in ES18s (only got two at the moment) but since reading the "2 x 18s or 4 x 15s" rule in the other thread I wonder if i made the right choice. I imagine it will be okay since these are used as upper bass so won't have as heavy a load as one that stems from sub duty but do any of you guys have any ideas as to how the proline will handle this?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jack_The_Ripper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 November 2018 at 8:52am
I think the overal general consenus about Proline 3000 amps is that they really are fantastic for subs and bass cabs in general but the lack of decent clip limiting means clip it once (even accidentally) and it could destroy all your drivers. Plus eventually with it being a Chinese ampliifer company and not British or USA etc..manufactured in China the parts inside it are very cheap and so eventually the amp will die much sooner than a QSC, Crest, Peavey etc...amp would which can live on for decades and decades. When this happens it could once again destroy your drivers.

So I say in my opinion try and go with amplifiers from reputable manufacturers like QSC, Crown, Crest, Peavey, EV, Powersoft, FFA etc...even if you take a slight hit on the sheer bass impact because at the end of the day reliability will be better. The Proline 3000 is a brilliant amp for subs but the reliability and it's ability to destroy drivers makes it not worth it. I had two and sold them before it had a chance to take out drivers, now I use QSC RMX4050HD for subs until maybe one day I can afford something even better.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Earplug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 November 2018 at 9:58am
Originally posted by Jack_The_Ripper Jack_The_Ripper wrote:

I think the overal general consenus about Proline 3000 amps is that they really are fantastic for subs and bass cabs in general but the lack of decent clip limiting means clip it once (even accidentally) and it could destroy all your drivers. Plus eventually with it being a Chinese ampliifer company and not British or USA etc..manufactured in China the parts inside it are very cheap and so eventually the amp will die much sooner than a QSC, Crest, Peavey etc...amp would which can live on for decades and decades. When this happens it could once again destroy your drivers.

So I say in my opinion try and go with amplifiers from reputable manufacturers like QSC, Crown, Crest, Peavey, EV, Powersoft, FFA etc...even if you take a slight hit on the sheer bass impact because at the end of the day reliability will be better. The Proline 3000 is a brilliant amp for subs but the reliability and it's ability to destroy drivers makes it not worth it. I had two and sold them before it had a chance to take out drivers, now I use QSC RMX4050HD for subs until maybe one day I can afford something even better.


+1

I´d say that it sounds like the Proline 3000 does exactly what it says on the box, but unfortunately that turns into a square wave that the 'optimistically' rated speakers we have these days just can´t handle!

People throw around stupid numbers for speaker powers that are really a nonsense - just like some of the amp power figures we see, especially on some of the low grade powered cabs around.

I know that there are some exceptions, but really most (15"/18") speakers couldn´t actually handle more than 400W-500W of 'real' power. Fortunately, most of the time they don´t actually draw much more than that when in use, so people don´t really notice. And the high-end powered cabs all have complex DSP´s that make sure they don´t!

Regarding amps, etc. - I can´t remember when I last blew a driver. Most of my gigs are powered  by old Crests (ok  - and a 9200 and Chinese CA18 copy - but a really good one Smile). I´ve stuck with my Crest 8001´s and 7001´s because they have one of the best soft-clip cicuits in the business. Just what the Proline lacks!  Ouch


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jack_The_Ripper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 November 2018 at 5:28pm
In the 18 years or so i've been doing parties at halls i've never blown a driver, EVER!!!

The Proline 3000 could be hooked upto a sub on one side of the amp that could handle 5,000 watts continuous average power and still it'd blow the sub if clipped, I think it's the behavour of the amp when it clips which is so amazingly destructive. I've read Abeltronics reviews of amps they've tested and as far as I can tell not all amps clip the same. I mean somne seem to clip and you can damage drivers if it keeps clipping and some are so dangerous if you clip them once say goodbye to your drivers. That's the kind of amp the Proline 3000 seems to be and if there was a Cloud CX335 used before it and it STILL managed to take out drivers that tells you how dangerous the amp is. 

I've read reviews of the Proline 3000 that back up my theory that even when you get close to clipping  but don't actually clip the amp the sound quality degrades.

For example the QSC RMX4050HD tested here :

Abeltronics say "Clipping behaviour is excellent with no nasties", and we know that when the Proline 3000 clips there's definately so called 'nasties' because the amp murders your drivers. Earplug, you say the Proline lacks good limiters but also i'd say it doesn't just need quality clip limiters it needs better components too so when you get close to clipping sound quality doesn't degrade.




Edited by Jack_The_Ripper - 01 November 2018 at 5:29pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Earplug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 November 2018 at 6:18pm
I´ve never used - or even seen a Proline 3000, so can´t really comment, but if people are relying on the clip light on the amp to tell them what´s going, then they´re crazy. The only way of knowing exactly what the amp is doing is to use an oscilliscope.

I´ve seen many amps start clipping long before any warning light comes on - especially with a low impedence load and a crap PSU. That may be the case with the 3000, in which case the crest factor is obviously dropping to 1 (0dB) and goodbye to your '5000W' speaker!   Dead



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 November 2018 at 6:29pm
Originally posted by Earplug Earplug wrote:

I´ve seen many amps start clipping long before any warning light comes on - especially with a low impedence load and a crap PSU. That may be the case with the 3000, in which case the crest factor is obviously dropping to 1 (0dB) and goodbye to your '5000W' speaker!   Dead


Can assure you the Proline  3000 has very well endowed PSU section, with huge Transformer, plenty of smoothing, and approx 25x output devices per channel. This gives them the legendary sound and bass notes. Don't forget they weigh 5.5 stones !!!

The only drawbacks on this amp, are the lack of sensitivity adjustment, and clip circuitry, and moody inrush circuitry components.

In the right hands, e.g. someone using limiter before the amp, and not trying to get 2kwpc @ 4 ohms, they do sound very nice.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jack_The_Ripper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 November 2018 at 8:47pm
Originally posted by levyte357- levyte357- wrote:

Originally posted by Earplug Earplug wrote:

I´ve seen many amps start clipping long before any warning light comes on - especially with a low impedence load and a crap PSU. That may be the case with the 3000, in which case the crest factor is obviously dropping to 1 (0dB) and goodbye to your '5000W' speaker!   Dead


Can assure you the Proline  3000 has very well endowed PSU section, with huge Transformer, plenty of smoothing, and approx 25x output devices per channel. This gives them the legendary sound and bass notes. Don't forget they weigh 5.5 stones !!!

The only drawbacks on this amp, are the lack of sensitivity adjustment, and clip circuitry, and moody inrush circuitry components.

In the right hands, e.g. someone using limiter before the amp, and not trying to get 2kwpc @ 4 ohms, they do sound very nice.

Yeah but it's been said that even with a mighty Cloud CX335 limiter before it, it still killed the drivers, maybe that's in part the fault of the CX335 but i've been told about 3db from clipping it starts to lose sound quality, I can't remember myself I only used my pair once and then sold them just in case they blew up one day soon.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote valve head777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 November 2018 at 9:49pm
So, actually the loss of sound quality is the first warning sign...
Maybe people should operate their soundsystems with ears rather than eyes.
As an operator, I knew when power compression was happening and could tell when an amp-driver combo was at its limits. My old 80's Mr Eddy transistor amps have absolutely no protection.
This is a problem of power in inexperienced hands.
Btw, just because a decent limiter is used doesn't mean it's set up correctly, and even if it is, a saggy mains negates that.


Edited by valve head777 - 01 November 2018 at 9:52pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Earplug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 November 2018 at 9:42am
Originally posted by levyte357- levyte357- wrote:

Originally posted by Earplug Earplug wrote:

I´ve seen many amps start clipping long before any warning light comes on - especially with a low impedence load and a crap PSU. That may be the case with the 3000, in which case the crest factor is obviously dropping to 1 (0dB) and goodbye to your '5000W' speaker!   Dead


Can assure you the Proline  3000 has very well endowed PSU section, with huge Transformer, plenty of smoothing, and approx 25x output devices per channel. This gives them the legendary sound and bass notes. Don't forget they weigh 5.5 stones !!!

The only drawbacks on this amp, are the lack of sensitivity adjustment, and clip circuitry, and moody inrush circuitry components.

In the right hands, e.g. someone using limiter before the amp, and not trying to get 2kwpc @ 4 ohms, they do sound very nice.



Ok, understood. Like I say, never seen them, but the Thomann stuff is usually quite well made. Obviously there´s been some shortcuts taken with this amp that limit it´s usability.


"Maybe people should operate their soundsystems with ears rather than eyes. "

Yup!   Smile Thumbs Up Smile


"Btw, just because a decent limiter is used doesn't mean it's set up correctly, and even if it is, a saggy mains negates that."

Or a 'saggy' PSU.  Ouch





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 November 2018 at 12:32pm


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Earplug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 November 2018 at 1:27pm

Website says 2400W!  LOL LOL LOL




When will the BS stop?  Unhappy


JBL, of course, have there own way of doing things. A friend just rang me about one of these:






He´s got a load of them under his VRX - and at least one of the cabs has reversed phase! After checking with the local tech service, he was told that it could happen if the speaker was overheated!  Confused

Only solution given was a recone.  I´m waiting for him to drop the thing around here so I can have a look. Amazing.  Ouch







Edited by Earplug - 02 November 2018 at 1:31pm
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