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Proline 3000 - People blowing drivers or Amp

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Tonskulus View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tonskulus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 April 2019 at 6:37pm
Originally posted by U.Viktor U.Viktor wrote:

About the "Class-H" :
All Class-H circuitry have rail separation diodes which completely blocking the reverse energy flow.
This circuit works only with pure resistors type load, otherwise -- with reactive load-- the load character is completely undamped between rail steps..
In other words the membranes of speakers are "free floating" due lack of active damping effect.
Maybe somebody like this effect but I would not say it *professional*
You can not stack effectively working (proper phase aligned, SPL & transient response) multiple speaker arrays from random phase radiators neither.


So you think the output transistor alone is not blocking the reverse energy? Think about it.. they do! Only one way current is possible as well as with those diodes. 
Also keep in mind, output stage has complementary bjt pairs. So there is actually no blocking for +/- reverse current as you might think :)

And there is no diodes on high voltage rails.  




Class H/G amp may have big damping factor = amplifier has cone control and thus it is not free floating.. 
I have some QSC mx3000a's, they are class H (or G).  One of the best cone control I have seen!
 



Edited by Tonskulus - 09 April 2019 at 6:38pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 April 2019 at 8:11pm
Originally posted by Tonskulus Tonskulus wrote:


So you think the output transistor alone is not blocking the reverse energy? Think about it.. they do! Only one way current is possible as well as with those diodes. 
Also keep in mind, output stage has complementary bjt pairs. So there is actually no blocking for +/- reverse current as you might think :)

And there is no diodes on high voltage rails.  




Class H/G amp may have big damping factor = amplifier has cone control and thus it is not free floating.. 
I have some QSC mx3000a's, they are class H (or G).  One of the best cone control I have seen!


I have a pair of JBL MPX1200s (rebadged Mx3000a), one is in the house, connected to the TV.. Wink

Maybe I should stop trying to sell one and keep it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tonskulus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 April 2019 at 8:46pm
Yes, they are indeed same amps.  Just amazingly good for bass, no anomalies or anything to worry about. 
I also had some Tamp ta1400's for a while, great little amps too as being class H (after I repaired some bad solder joints and one faulty bridge rectifier). No signs of losing cone control. 

I need to get proline 3000 for my test bench, just to find out if there is something wrong at clipping..





Edited by Tonskulus - 09 April 2019 at 8:48pm
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thes View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 April 2019 at 6:33pm
Another interesting fact to consider is the difference in slew rate between the proline 3000 and the ta2400:
Proline 3000 45V
TA2400 60V
pretty strange considering how much bigger the proline 3000 is.
Made some research and noticed that a lot of big amps (way bigger than the TA 2400) have slew rates of approximately 45V...so they are supposed to give less bass impact compared to the TA2400?
 Point is that the most part of bigger amps don't seem to have bigger damping factors/slew rates than smallish amps (qsc rmx 5050 has smaller damping factor than the rmx 2450 for example).
Cerwin vega cv 5000ìs damping factor is 300
Even the monster crest ca 10001 has a damping factor of 500...
Crown ma5000vz slew rate is only 30!!!! (Damping factor is outstanding at "greater than 1000")


Edited by thes - 13 April 2019 at 6:37pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tonskulus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2019 at 6:56pm
Total damping factor drops anyway down to 10...40 typically when speakers and speak cables are connected.

Tamp TA1400, similar to TA2400, produces indeed tight bass.  I actually liked it pretty much. 

Low damping factor amp might be compensated using highly damped speakers.  
Once I tested my Cubo15 subs with tube amplifier having very low DF.. it was still tight and punchy, I was actually pretty surprised how loud and clean it was!





Edited by Tonskulus - 14 April 2019 at 7:04pm
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thes View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 April 2019 at 1:04pm
I do know that damping factor drops to 10 - 40 when the amp is connected to speakers, especially those that use a passive crossover, but this happens when you have a damping factor of, let's say 100 - 150 and cables around 20 awg are involved. I don't think that with an amp that has 1000 or 2000 of damping factor you'll end up with no more than 40 at the speakers, especially if you use active crossovers and something like 8 or 6 awg cables (or less)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JulianDA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2019 at 3:12pm
My partner in crime also wrote an E-Mail to Thomann requesting the new information on the amp. They told us that it is still the same amp and that the class H rating was in fact an error the whole time...i dont know what to think, especially because it also got cheaper Ermm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2019 at 4:22pm
If new amp lighter than 37kg, erm...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gen0me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2019 at 4:39pm
Originally posted by thes thes wrote:

Made some research and noticed that a lot of big amps (way bigger than the TA 2400) have slew rates of approximately 45V...so they are supposed to give less bass impact compared to the TA2400?
There is no point for a bass amp to have such a big slew either. Lets take as example 5 samples(44.1k/1s) voltage swing from maximum voltage to minimum. Thats close to maximum angle at which samples are falling during bass drop. 5/44.1k~113us. Even counting some ridicolous power on the speaker in worst impedance scenario. sqrt(3kw*8ohm)*2sqrt(2)~438V
3.9V/us
I wouldnt want to test it thought.
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