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mini-mad View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mini-mad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Pub install...
    Posted: 01 May 2018 at 10:50am
Soooo... it IS a pub BUT the owner would like a system to give the weekends a bit of "oompf" 

They have already had an FK1 rep in there quoting £8K for an f101 system... and that got a raised eyebrow! The last owners have taken the old install with them so I gotta start from scratch (which is a good thing)

I've already enlightened them as to hanging nice big heavy curtains around the windows and wot-not to absorb some of the sound trying to leave the building so as to keep complaints to a minimum. The window that the dj will be near and possibly the sound system has already been boarded up and packed out with as much insulation as possible to stop sound leaks..

Anyway. It's a nice sized pub and with potential. I've already suggested a 4zone 100v line system to run during the day for background stuff and he's pleased with this idea... the "friend" who is a dj of the owner knows what he likes but isn't to sure what he wants!

So as I am aiming to keep the sound inside the building but still at a nice party level I was thinking of stacking 4x THAM12 opposite the dj booth (facing the dance floor and flying 4x tops from the ceiling facing down to the dance floor as to keep the level of music at a good level and also so that the dj won't require a monitor as he will be in the corner of the dance floor anyway... the amp rack will go up behind the bar.. away from fingers... and possibly with an AVC strapped in to make sure the noise limiter doesn't kick in to early and spoil everybodies fun.

I've got a tham12 myself so know what they sound like, they are compact and 4x stacked vertically on their sides SHOULD be all the bass the place needs.


...am I missing anything here?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hemisphere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2018 at 11:26am
Curtains won't stop bass leaving the building which is generally what draws the complaints. Unless they're rockwool curtains. 

4x THAM12 indoors can make a huge amount of bass. At least they're not so strong below 50Hz, so that helps.

If you're looking at a pub with glass windows in the same room as the system, it doesn't matter much how well insulated the area around the system is, the sound is going to get out. 

What's the proximity to local residences like? Licensing situation? What was the previous system like and did they have any trouble?

You've got a THAM12 already so why not get it in there for a test? Load it to a corner and push it to the limit. If that seems like too much (listening from the nearest residences) then either go for a pair instead (headroom) or specify a more fidelity oriented low powered reflex system.
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mini-mad View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mini-mad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2018 at 11:39am
Agreed but heavy curtains DO help to absorb mid and some low range frequencies.

Yes, Thams were chosen to help with the below 50 range.

Glass windows yes... but at the other end of the pub so with packing in bodies and the little help from the curtains this should help "contain" the sound better.

Locals aren't to close.. a few "living above shop" jobbies but it's and old well built building (old court house) so providing I can keep the sound to the best of my ability inside we should be good to go.
Licence til 2 in the morning.
Previous owners had an enormous system right near the front of the pub near the door and windows...

And yes. Testing will be on the agenda.

I'm just a little stuck on tops.. I have a pair of ohm mr228 which have a lovely sound and was looking for maybe 4x similar to this to fly aimed downwards at the dance floor so the dj doesn't have to blast the system to make sure he and everyone can hear it.




Edited by mini-mad - 01 May 2018 at 11:40am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nickyburnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2018 at 12:01pm
It's everything, not everythink!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mini-mad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2018 at 12:12pm
Originally posted by nickyburnell nickyburnell wrote:

A thought

https://www.thomann.de/gb/the_box_pyrit_212_sub.htm#bewertung

Those look interesting, fairly small footprint... anyone use them before?

Any recommendations on tops?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kevinmcdonough Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2018 at 12:35pm
hey

yeah on the soundproofing front, what most people outside of our industry don't really get is that there are actually 2 separate (and often competing) things that are often lumped together and described as "soundproofing".  One is the actual act of soundproofing, and one is treating acoustics. 

The kinds of things most people think you have to do to a room: sticking eggbox foam to the walls, hanging curtains etc etc, treat the acoustics of the room and soak up reverb and reflections in the room. They make the sound in the room sound much better, but they do very little to actually provide soundproofing and stop sound escaping. (have lost count of the times I've had discussions with people who stick a bit of foam on their wall and wonder why their neighbours still complain at the noise! LOL)

While you're correct that heavy curtains will block some of the mid and high sound, that's not usually a problem, usually the walls and windows block the worst of that anyway. What always causes much more problem is bass frequencies, both travelling in the air and vibrating through the structure. And the only way to do anything at all to make a dent in this is to add mass. LOTS of mass. Extra layers of plasterboard and ply/board over the windows and fill the gap with sand will begin to make a dent. Mixing layers of plasterboard and MDF to create transitions between different densities will also help. The green goo stuff you can get (who's name I forget) between the layers provides flex and movement that absorbs more, and then if you really want to go all out room within room constructions etc on floating rubber supports. 

Of course, you're not gonna be able to do all that in the pub I'd assume, but that's the kind of thing that's really needed to soak up any sound if they begin to have problems/complaints. And the funny thing is, as I said those two things are competing and the more sound proofing you put in and trap sound inside the room, often the more you then need to spend on foam/acoustic panels, bass traps etc to then deal with that sound and keep the room sounding good.  Unfortunately it's an expensive, messy business with no easy answers. 


In terms of the actual system, it doesn't sound like a terrible plan as such. As you say the 12" subs wont be likely to have millions below 50Hz which will help with soundproofing. Though I' be tempted to spread them through the room. All placed in one place they'll need to be up pretty loud to get sound over to the other side of the room, and so will be louder than necessary. Spread out, while you'll lose a touch of frequency response with some small cancellations, it wont be enough that anyone will notice, and the bass through he whole room will be much more even SPL wise, and so can be at a lower overall level. 

(If they're over the other side of the room then chances are the DJ will also want a monitor anyway as there will be a noticeable amount of delay when he's trying to beat match the kick drum). 

The other thing to be very careful of if you're building cabs for it is to be VERY careful how you set the limiters, as we all know DJs have a horrible reputation for running soundsystem way into the red and popping things. 

K
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nickyburnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2018 at 12:39pm
Keeping it indoors means reflex to me. Reviews on those seem good, 3yr warranty....30 day collect money back guarantee.   They also do a powered version.

As for the speakers facing the dance floor, one of the most fatiguing things for me is to be seated away from a dancfloor listening to muffled mid tops (pointing away from my seat) and being pounded by bass. Infill speakers a must or keep the sub really well contained IMHO
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SoundsUnlimited Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2018 at 12:44pm
For tops I would look at the new martin Audio Blackline x which can be bought for a good price! and sounds good for the money  https://martin-audio.com/products/loudspeakers/blacklinex10
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacethebase Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2018 at 12:46pm
I have a really nice QSC Install system.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/152984668817?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1558.l2649

It is all B&C loaded. I really do need this gone now as its taking up valuable space.

Make me an offer I cant refuse. I even have the DSP units for it.
www.wedding-production.co.uk

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote concept-10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2018 at 1:29pm
Originally posted by jacethebase jacethebase wrote:

I have a really nice QSC Install system.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/152984668817?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1558.l2649

It is all B&C loaded. I really do need this gone now as its taking up valuable space.

Make me an offer I cant refuse. I even have the DSP units for it.

That would be job done Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2018 at 1:46pm
I have 4 void Venu12 which you can have for £1000
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2018 at 1:53pm
You need to be very careful with this install---You state above that there was an enormous system in there previously so that the regular customers will have got used to hearing high SPLs over the former owners tenure.
Now when people are used to this kind of system and you install a very nice sounding rig that is considerably smaller and not as powerful as the previous system then the new owner will not be very happy when most of his customers have gone elsewhere to other venues in order to hear a louder sound.
You really need to suss out exactly what was in there before and quote or install a rig that comes very close to it performance wise and advise the new owner of your reasons behind this.
Over the years, I have seen many venues f--ked up by having weaker sound and lighting systems installed which have not been up to the one that has just been removed from the venue.
Just as a matter of interest, what was the previous system installed in there so we can see a more fuller picture of the problem?
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