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Rig for 300 ppl house/techno/disco parties

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wilidapili View Drop Down
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    Posted: 13 August 2018 at 11:31pm
Hey. Been lurking for a while now and it's a bit overwhelming to try and decide what to build for our first build! We finally got a bit of extra cash to start building a system, so we wanted to ask some questions.

We will be playing to max. 300 people inside, but every now and then outside. Also, mostly house, techno, disco stuff. 

We have some old amps that we will be using for now (budgeting only for cabs now, amps will be upgradeable later), and will find some 2nd hand rack stuff (crossover, EQ, limiter etc.). We can use a CNC and a wide variety of woodworking tools, so complexity shouldn't be TOO much of an issue... 

I guess we should first be deciding on the kick bins. We've been looking at HD15's, THAM15 & 1850. There's a bunch of other possibilities as well, any other recommendations for this type of music? How many should we build?

Then we should probably decide on subs. Do we even need subs, or will the kick bins go low enough for this type of music? How many should we build?

Then we should decide on midtops, which is the last thing we will build, and also the least researched so far. Recommendations are welcome!

Appreciate all views!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Simpson_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 August 2018 at 1:05pm
Ideally you want at least two 18" subs. Either scoop / reflex or even some folded horn boxes like the 186/1850 would do nicely (you may need more than 2 of these though and they can play to a much higher frequency than scoops). The HD15 can only play down to 55/60hz do you might be able to hear a little bass but no real sub bass there as it's not deigned for that- especially for 300 people. 

Subs 35-80hz then the HD15 from 85-140ish for the kick and the tops to cover the rest is what I find works best with our scoops anyway. For the top boxes you could get away with a pair of 15" full range speakers that you can buy dirt cheap on the used market.  If you're looking to build some mid/high boxes then I'd recommend either MT112 or Extros as they're both horn loaded.

What amps and sub drivers are you using? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote corell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 August 2018 at 2:01pm
My advice to anyone who is not familiar with Phase aligning, FFT and stuff is to not build a 4 way hornloaded System with a dedicated kick bin but just some Reflex bass bins and tops. You will get away with 3 ways in this case with lot less timing Problems, honking and fewer amps and for indoors and up to 300pax, you dont Need it to be hornloaded anyways.

Try 4 high Quality 18" BR boxes tuned to ~43Hz and a pair of powerfull mid tops. There are some options where you will get a passive x-over design on top if you buy the parts, one is the BS-Tek BS-M14 (Google that). This is extremely valuable as the crossover design is very crucial and not at all self explaining, even when done with an active device. The said top is loaded with B&C 14NDL76 and 18SOund ND1460 CD which are both top Drivers found in pro Audio gear.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wilidapili Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 August 2018 at 5:41pm
After reading some more, we were thinking about building two X1's under four HD15's to get a proper punch, and at a later stage two MT121's. We also considered building tapped horns for a smoother bass and possibility to go really low, but decided that they are a bit too big to lug around.

We don't have any drivers purchased yet, and the amps we will use for now will be some "extra" ones laying around at my friends audio retail company and/or rent some proper ones. Once we get some more money, we will purchase some proper amps. We could also purchase RCF drivers with good discount prices, but everyone seems to recommend the Void V-18 1000 for the X1, and the PD154 for the HD15.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wilidapili Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 August 2018 at 5:49pm
We are really keen on building a 4 way system with dedicated kick bins, and it's pretty much the reason we're building the speakers in the first place. Also I would like to learn about all that stuff (Phase aligning FFT etc.), so going the "easiest" route isn't really what we're looking for.

Thanks for the suggestions, I will look into the BS-Tek + 4 BR boxes. I forgot to mention, that we actually already have a DSP, biamp Nexia, as our first "rack gear". 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote junoprobelaunch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 August 2018 at 6:58pm
IMO for the genres you listed I don't think you could go wrong with a hog scoop, really versatile bin and renound for working well with hd15s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wilidapili Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 August 2018 at 10:39am
Originally posted by junoprobelaunch junoprobelaunch wrote:

IMO for the genres you listed I don't think you could go wrong with a hog scoop, really versatile bin and renound for working well with hd15s.

Do you see some benefits in the Hog compared to the X1?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 August 2018 at 11:21am
For house, techno and disco for 300 people I totally disagree on Hogs completely, and echo corell's comment of just getting a high end reflex system. Spend the cash on better components and you'll be perfectly happy. Look at the 18sound reflex dual 18" design.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote concept-10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 August 2018 at 11:31am
Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

For house, techno and disco for 300 people I totally disagree on Hogs completely, and echo corell's comment of just getting a high end reflex system. Spend the cash on better components and you'll be perfectly happy. Look at the 18sound reflex dual 18" design.
Exactly this
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wilidapili Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 August 2018 at 2:12pm
Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

For house, techno and disco for 300 people I totally disagree on Hogs completely, and echo corell's comment of just getting a high end reflex system. Spend the cash on better components and you'll be perfectly happy. Look at the 18sound reflex dual 18" design.

Is this the one you are talking about? And also, would you recommend not having a kick bass separately with this design?

http://www.eighteensound.com/Portals/0/EnclosuresKits/18sound_18_dual_subwoofer_kit.pdf

I remember kind of ruling out a reflex system at some point of my research due to reading that they sound harsh. But I’m open again, and will do some reading. Also, a tapped horn is still intriguing for me. But for example the Miss Piggy by AndyWave seems to be so huge that I don’t think we could carry it up some stairs even with 2 people LOL

We do want to be able to go low and even though techno doesn’t require it, some proper deep house basslines is what we’re after. And the possibility to play some dubstep too if need be, but it’s not a priority right now. Also, the possibility to grow the system for bigger audiences in the future.


Edited by wilidapili - 20 August 2018 at 2:13pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TMH Music Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 August 2018 at 3:31pm
Originally posted by wilidapili wilidapili wrote:

Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

For house, techno and disco for 300 people I totally disagree on Hogs completely, and echo corell's comment of just getting a high end reflex system. Spend the cash on better components and you'll be perfectly happy. Look at the 18sound reflex dual 18" design.

Is this the one you are talking about? And also, would you recommend not having a kick bass separately with this design?

http://www.eighteensound.com/Portals/0/EnclosuresKits/18sound_18_dual_subwoofer_kit.pdf

I remember kind of ruling out a reflex system at some point of my research due to reading that they sound harsh. But I’m open again, and will do some reading. Also, a tapped horn is still intriguing for me. But for example the Miss Piggy by AndyWave seems to be so huge that I don’t think we could carry it up some stairs even with 2 people LOL

We do want to be able to go low and even though techno doesn’t require it, some proper deep house basslines is what we’re after. And the possibility to play some dubstep too if need be, but it’s not a priority right now. Also, the possibility to grow the system for bigger audiences in the future.

Everything you are saying points towards reflex as your best option, certainly for your bass section. My small rig uses THAM 12 tapped horns; they are remarkably efficient, kick like a mule and are a one person lift with no issue, but the trade-off is bass extension, very little below 44 hz. For 300 pax, a properly powered pair of 2x18 will be fine and will meet most reasonable reflex mid/tops no problem. When you’re ready to expand, simply add more 2x18’s and go with horn loaded mid/tops. My opinion FWIW. 
Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonB67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 August 2018 at 5:57pm
Originally posted by wilidapili wilidapili wrote:

I remember kind of ruling out a reflex system at some point of my research due to reading that they sound harsh. 

No they don't.  Get the right ones and set them up right and they will sound bloody lovely! Don't dismiss them!
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