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levyte357- View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 September 2020 at 12:47pm
Originally posted by kipman725 kipman725 wrote:

Also if budget is tight you might want to consider Berhinger EP4000 its a pretty standard class-H amplifier but due to the brand they tend to be quite cheap second hand.


EP4000 is rebranded EP2500, nothing else.

Not even worthy of being used as door stop.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kipman725 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 September 2020 at 1:26pm
It meets spec of 2400W bridged into 4 ohms, has decent SNR and is cheap due to brand perception.
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jammin75 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jammin75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 September 2020 at 1:34pm
i had an ep 2500 years ago used on 4ohm bridge sub duty wasnt sayin anything Confused
feel the vibes !!!   "Who Feels it Knows it"            Strong like Lion              
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levyte357- View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote levyte357- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 September 2020 at 2:22pm
Originally posted by kipman725 kipman725 wrote:

It meets spec of 2400W bridged into 4 ohms, has decent SNR and is cheap due to brand perception.


Brand perception is, it's cheap crap.

Reason for this brand perception is, it's cheap crap.

Anyone recommending Behringer EP4000 for sub, really do not know, what they are talking about.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote jbl_man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 September 2020 at 3:02pm
Originally posted by midas midas wrote:

Ues there are some peavey cs1000 on the bay at the minute. One supposed to be the x but doesn't look like it. 

Strangely a lot of prices now seem stupidly high considering we will not be able to use these things for a few.months yet. 


Nice ones are becoming rare Midas,there are plenty of scruffy cs800's around cheap,but the nicer cs1000 and cs1200's are  harder to find at sensible figures.  Cs1200 has 32x MJ15024/25's in it, that's more than a Macrotech 2400 .
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midas View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote midas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 September 2020 at 3:59pm
Agree the 1200 is scarce.. I was looking for one and the 808 came up first. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kipman725 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2020 at 11:52pm
What does speakerplans think of the Ecler Pam 1400? just pulled one out from under the bed assuming it was broken but has passed preliminary testing.
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njw View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote njw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 September 2020 at 1:10am
Originally posted by levyte357- levyte357- wrote:

Originally posted by kipman725 kipman725 wrote:

Also if budget is tight you might want to consider Berhinger EP4000 its a pretty standard class-H amplifier but due to the brand they tend to be quite cheap second hand.


EP4000 is rebranded EP2500, nothing else.

Not even worthy of being used as door stop.

 I've owned loads of EP2500's over the years and looked after loads more EP's in various installs, not one of them ever put a foot wrong, even the ones running at 4r bridge on bass. Unfortunately I can't say the same for most of the 'brand' name amps I've owned/used. They sound just as good, are as well built and as reliable as the QSC RMX amps they're copied from IMO. 
 
 You complain about people giving bad advice but to state that what are probably the best 'budget' amps are cheap crap and not worthy of being used as a door stop is just that. For driving low power bass bins (not subs!), mid tops or monitors you could do a lot worse than a Behringer EP.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ianblumenfeld Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 September 2020 at 7:46am
i haven't noticed any really bad advice here

i tend to avoid cheap chinese branded or chinese made if i can

i also try to avoid berrys, i don't like what they do, copy others, inc. styling, like copycat supermarket brands

and also they are made to a price, so they can't be as good

i am just attracted to pv as you get a lot for your money

with the covid, prices on the bay are still going high, sadly, much unrealistic pricing around

there are no real bargains these days

i tend to only go for top brands, you can't really go wrong

but the experience and help ppl give here is invaluable, to avoid unreliable things

i'm really greatful



oh by the way, and old dog told me not to mix amps on mid and tops, etc. and there is a phase difference, even with different powers of the same amps
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote snowflake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 September 2020 at 10:26am
Originally posted by Ianblumenfeld Ianblumenfeld wrote:

i haven't noticed any really bad advice here

i tend to avoid cheap chinese branded or chinese made if i can

i also try to avoid berrys, i don't like what they do, copy others, inc. styling, like copycat supermarket brands

and also they are made to a price, so they can't be as good

i am just attracted to pv as you get a lot for your money

with the covid, prices on the bay are still going high, sadly, much unrealistic pricing around

there are no real bargains these days

i tend to only go for top brands, you can't really go wrong

but the experience and help ppl give here is invaluable, to avoid unreliable things

i'm really greatful



oh by the way, and old dog told me not to mix amps on mid and tops, etc. and there is a phase difference, even with different powers of the same amps


bit of anti-Chinese prejudice
anti-Berry snobbery
un-explained brand loyalty
and faith that top brands always have value products

perfect example! Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ianblumenfeld Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 September 2020 at 11:05am


bit of anti-Chinese prejudice
anti-Berry snobbery
un-explained brand loyalty
and faith that top brands always have value products

nice one, looks like i'll fit in well hereWink

explanation

ancient english proverb says you get what you pay for

proper pro stuff...nice things cost money

i am anti reverse engineering and copyinig

using cheaaper components

they could even use knock off transistors

and have oscillation and reliability problems

these pro companies have pedigree and legacy's going back to the 80s and 70s at least

it can cost millions to r/d and get to market a product

and the chinese try to short circuit the process

and either make em abroad, and then get the design and reproduce it

lawsuits have shown it

its unethical, too

cheaper parts worser spec and unreliable, too

top brands are industry std for a reason, they work and do the job 24/7

I got introduced by my brother to good stuff

started out with i think studiomaster mixer, c audios, ev's, then soundcraft

now using lab gruppen, allen heath mixer, nexo's and kt dn360
and a pro engineer,

you can't get a crest knock off on the cheap, surely??? and expect it to be the same

they have the styling to a tee though, that and specs sell, along with price



Edited by Ianblumenfeld - 18 September 2020 at 11:07am
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kipman725 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kipman725 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 September 2020 at 11:15am
you missed "oh by the way, and old dog told me not to mix amps on mid and tops, etc. and there is a phase difference, even with different powers of the same amps"

you missed the appeal to ambiguous authority. In most cases this is a non issue as the amplifiers are linear time invariant systems and minimum phase with a flat frequency response in the band of interest.  There are some exceptions to be aware of though:
1) Amps with DSP will have an intrinsic delay caused by the digital processing
2) Some amps (E.G inuke6000) are inverting and so will need the speakers connecting the other way round or the input signal inverting

But if your using a measurement mic on the system (which you should be doing) you will quickly see these issues if they arise.  For example I always wondered why I had to invert my subs when I was using an inuke6000 till I found out that it was inverting, it wasn't an issue as I had noticed the problem when adjusting the sub level and crossover and corrected it.

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