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Setting limiters on Berry LMS

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jonminns View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonminns Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 June 2009 at 5:13pm
The attenuator on the outputs is an excellent idea, its one i have put into practice and works spot on

Means you can drive the dsp harder, have more control, more sampling, and more lights :P

Jon
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drivebycar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 June 2009 at 12:30pm
Set them all up yesterday, so looking forward to testing it out at the weekend. Just one more question, on the attack & release, what is an average value for these?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 June 2009 at 12:41pm
does anyone know the input sensitivities for UKP1300 and UKP2100
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cuivenion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 June 2009 at 6:19am
So, just to confirm I'm doing this correctly, If i want to use the limiters on the dcx correctly I should set for the fastest attack, longest release and the highest ratio to protect the speakers?
Here's my system:
QSC PLX3402 running 1 HZ500 (500 wrms) per channel
JBL MPX1200 running 1 Dare E18DR (Fane 18XB 4ohm) per channel

The PLX input sensitivity is 1.7 volts at 4ohms so I've increased the output on the dcx on these channels by 6.9db and set the limiters to -16.6db.

I've estimated the MPX's sensitivity at 4ohms to 0.775 volts, so I have left the the output on the dcx on these channels at 0DB and set the limiter to -23db.

The system sounds fine when playing music as i don't push it anywhere near the limit. I use it for live sound too though, and thats a different story. I just want to check I'm protecting the speakers properly, and in the right way.
help!!!!!!!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 June 2009 at 11:08am
Unfortunately, the Proline 2700 is a bit rubbish @ 8 ohm stereo, and when I had mine, I only ever used it in 4ohm stereo or 4ohm bridge, due to the lack of power in 8ohm stereo.

So allowing a max signal of 0db to arrive at the Proline, in 8 ohm stereo will result in dissappointment. However someone on here has said, the protection on 2700 is not very good, and clip light on amp may mean driver life just shortened.

When using the DCX limiting on kick/mid tops, I typically set limiters to -19. I usually have powerful amps in this range, so setting those to 0db sensitivity and 75% gain travel always works with this, and nothing blown.

I dont use DCX limiters on sub. I use external MDX4600 XL.

Originally posted by cuivenion cuivenion wrote:

So, just to confirm I'm doing this correctly, If i want to use the limiters on the dcx correctly I should set for the fastest attack, longest release and the highest ratio to protect the speakers?
Here's my system:
QSC PLX3402 running 1 HZ500 (500 wrms) per channel
JBL MPX1200 running 1 Dare E18DR (Fane 18XB 4ohm) per channel


[hijack]
Cuivenon, please compare the MPX and PLX in 4ohm bridge on sub sometime, and let me know results. You maybe pleasantly suprised.LOL
[/hijack]


Edited by levyte357 - 22 June 2009 at 11:10am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cuivenion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 June 2009 at 12:54pm
[/QUOTE]

[hijack]
Cuivenon, please compare the MPX and PLX in 4ohm bridge on sub sometime, and let me know results. You maybe pleasantly suprised.LOL
[/hijack]
[/QUOTE]

Won't be doing that anytime soon mate, not when I'm running 4ohm speakers! What's meant by [/hijack]?
help!!!!!!!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote super-hero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 June 2009 at 12:32am
Great thred this, as many people would like to know how to set their limiters properly, myself included.
 
So here is my scenario.
 
My amp sensitivity is 1.07v rms @4r and delivers 1100watts.
 
If I want to run a speaker that is only rated at 150watts @4r
 
should I set the limiters 8.65dB lower, or, reduce the input gain on the dcx by 8.65dB. and if I reduce the input gain, how does that affect my limiter settings?
 
Or should I reduce my input gain by 8.65dB and lower my limiters by 8.65dB.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doober Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 June 2009 at 3:26pm
The limiter stops the output exceeding a given level. The input gain affects how much input is required to hit the limiter, but not the level you're limiting to.

I would set the limiter 8.65dB lower (assuming this is the correct attenuation to limit the amp to 150w, I've not checked your maths), and then lower the output gain on that channel until the balance between bands sounds right.

The input gain level is a matter of personal preference, you can set this high and the outputs low or vice versa. I try to keep both as near 0dB as possible, although the output gains will usually vary with each frequency band due to different power levels and efficiency of drivers. The hf will almost certainly be a lot lower than the rest.

Hope that makes sense

Kieran
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phildat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 June 2010 at 7:43pm
bumped this for later reference.



Edited by phildat - 14 June 2010 at 7:44pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phildat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 June 2010 at 8:34am
Originally posted by AlfieDring AlfieDring wrote:

Originally posted by drivebycar drivebycar wrote:

Hi mate,

Bins are loaded with pd186's so RMS is 700W

Amp powering them is a Proline 2700 currently running one a side at 8ohm so 900W

Dont know what the input sensitivity is though im afraid? And am at work so cant find out till later.

Yep its a DCX2496

Cheers





Hmmm ok, i cant find the 2700 input sensitivity either... bit annoying.

All the other t.amps seem to be 0.775v so ill do a worked example with that and if the 2700 is different just do it again with 1 or 1.4 or whatever it is.

Have a read of this thread from a while ago......

http://www.speakerplans.com/Forum/output-levels-input-sensitivity-dbu-dbfs-ummmm_topic23486.html?KW=%2B22dBu

... it will explain in a bit more detail the following maths.


0.775v = 0 dBu

The ultradrive says +22dBu = 0dBfs so in order to output 0 dBu we set the limiter to -22dBfs.

With the limiter set at -22dB the output from the ultradrive will be constrained to 0.775v and the output from the amp to 900w. To further drop this to 700w we work out the dB power ratio of 900/700 and subtract this from the previous -22dB...

10 Log (900/700) = 1.091dB

-22 - 1.091 = -23.091dB

Setting the limiter to -23.091dBfs should keep the output power down to 700w IF the proline has 0.775v input sensitivity. For different sensitivities see below.


0.775v = 0 dBu (as before )
1v = 2.22dBu
1.4v = 5.14dBu

So if for example its 1v not 0.775v just add 2.22dB to the previous answer giving -20.871dBfs.

Hope that makes some sense. If not then check that thread i posted ^ chickenfizz shows another method for working this out that is i think equivilant? not totally sure though.

LASTLY (at last!) I reckon you can probably safely put 900w into your bins anyway, would be very unlikely to cause a problem so you could just set the limiters to stop the amp clipping (-22dB) and not bother shaving off that last decibel LOL

EDIT: utterly forgot about release time. This parameter changes how long the limiter takes to open up again (under the control of an envelope, it dosent just ping open suddenly once the times up!) I reccomend for proper "limiter" behaviour setting it for the longest time possible or at least 5 seconds.





anybody know where the link to this maths stuff is??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jack-red-eye Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 January 2011 at 5:45pm
Originally posted by AlfieDring AlfieDring wrote:

Ok no problem. Gather the following info.....

Input sensitivity of amplifier(s)  (in volts :P)

Anyone know the input sensitivity for the cerwin vega 2800 & Matrix ukp1300? 
its not on the cerwin vega website and i cant find anything for the ukp on the tiniterweb??
Is there a way to calculate it?


Edited by jack-red-eye - 17 January 2011 at 5:48pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adam_Iron_Horse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 April 2011 at 11:30pm
Hey really useful thread but I've not really got my ultradrive set up right.

I just slapped on -22db limiters on all the channels as I was in a rush when I first got it and set it up for the first gig.

My amps are

Peavey cs1200x - 1800W bridged into 4ohms driving 2 Pd. 186 (700W RMS each)sensitivity 1.4V

C-audio SR707 - 825W a side into 4ohm driving 2 eminence deltas a side (400W RMS each) but couldn't find the sensitivity of the amp.

Soundlab G097M (I know) - 400W a side into 8ohm driving one unbranded 2" compression drivers a side (120W RMS each) input sensitivity of 1V

can anyone help me?
well i know someone on here could but
could someone help me? :)

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