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Simple HR question

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MattStolton View Drop Down
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    Posted: 05 April 2013 at 11:29am

When calculating L12 length, where do you measure L1 from, middle of dust cap?

Playing with Martinssons Tham15, so middle of cone gives one L12, but there is 7.5" of driver either side of this. Is this why "measured" varies from HR quite often for the better, as there are multiple horn lengths? For long horns, I presume this effect is lessened, but on short horns, you have significant multiple lengths? Effectively, for a TH, you have multiple 1/4 wave lengths of horn path, which means you even out the predicted humps in response, from just one horn length?

I.e if you consider slices of cone perpendicular to L12, at centre of dust cap L12 , there is a 15" wide strip of cone surface acting. As you move to each end of the cone L12 +7.5" or L12 -7.5", there is less cone strip/area acting, but at a possibly significant different L12?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BP1Fanatic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 April 2013 at 6:54pm

Regarding a 3 segment Tapped Horn,

L12 = the begining of the horn to the middle of the dustcap.
L23 = the middle of the dustcap to the middle of the magnet.
L34 = the middle of the magnet to the end of the horn.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mobiele eenheid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 April 2013 at 10:07pm
The effect of different path lengths is relative to the wavelengths involved. Most tapped horns are <125 Hz whereas the effect is mostly noticeable about 1 octave higher (in the 200 - 400 Hz +  area).
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TENSiON Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 April 2013 at 11:35pm
Roughly the equivalent of 1/6th to 1/8th 1/4th octave smoothing in the case of a Tham-15 (1.94m path length, 32cm effective cone diameter, 40-120Hz evaluation range).

Might be a bit off though - it's late and brain refuses to fully cooperate Ermm LOL

Edit: After giving it a second thought, the path difference in case of tapped horns is actually 2 cone diameters as the wavefront originating from the extreme far end of the back side of the cone has to cross the cone 2 times to arrive at the extreme far end on the front side.

So the boundary conditions for the calculation are: HR path length (S2) ± effective cone diameter.

However...

If the transducer was square, this would account for a 1/3rd octave smoothing effect, but as the cone is circular and the bulk of its Sd is concentrated around the centerline, it has to be accounted for when evaluating the effective path differences and how it affects the final results.

Based on this I would estimate that
the final real world result is somewhere in the ballpark of 1/4th to 1/6th octave smoothing (for the specific case of THAM-15).




Edited by TENSiON - 01 May 2013 at 3:01pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MattStolton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2013 at 1:00pm
Originally posted by TENSiON TENSiON wrote:

Roughly the equivalent of 1/6th to 1/8th 1/4th octave smoothing in the case of a Tham-15 (1.94m path length, 32cm effective cone diameter, 40-120Hz evaluation range).

Might be a bit off though - it's late and brain refuses to fully cooperate Ermm LOL

Edit: After giving it a second thought, the path difference in case of tapped horns is actually 2 cone diameters as the wavefront originating from the extreme far end of the back side of the cone has to cross the cone 2 times to arrive at the extreme far end on the front side.

So the boundary conditions for the calculation are: HR path length (S2) ± effective cone diameter.

However...

If the transducer was square, this would account for a 1/3rd octave smoothing effect, but as the cone is circular and the bulk of its Sd is concentrated around the centerline, it has to be accounted for when evaluating the effective path differences and how it affects the final results.

Based on this I would estimate that
the final real world result is somewhere in the ballpark of 1/4th to 1/6th octave smoothing (for the specific case of THAM-15).


I was wondering if it would have a significant effect. On Martinsson's blog, and from my fiddling on HR, you get quite a peaky output, but his measured response is pretty flat, and I am trying to work out what effect is causing this difference?

Also along the lengths of L2-L3, do these lengths of individual "pipe", i.e each length between corners/bends "resonate" or do they out of band, say 200Hz plus, or not significantly at all.

It has just been bugging me that the Tham15 HR is good, but a little peaky, whereas measured is much more favourable, with the troughs between peaks appearing filled, not peaks lowered. If I can work out what improves outside of HR, to flatten response, I may be able to apply this to other TH projects.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TENSiON Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2013 at 6:11pm
Yes, it can have a quite signifficant impact - especially in the case of tapped horns, because as I wrote in my previous post - when you take the longest pathway from the inner to the outer side of the cone, the wavefront has to cross the full diameter of the cone TWO times till it gets to the mouth termination point.

So the "smoothing" effect is about twice as strong in case of TH's than it is for classic FLH's. The difference is even greater if the FLH is perpendiculary slot loaded relative to the horn path (which minimises cone diameter related path length differences).

Another non-negligible thing that adds to the final "smoothing" effect even further, is the back-reflection from the beginning of the first TH segment, which - depending on ratio between the first two segment lengths - can also be a signifficant contributor.

While response smoothing in general is usually considered a "good thing", it has to be noted that at some point it becomes rather counter-productive, because as the pathlength "bandwidth" raises, the resulting sound becomes more and more muddy due to overswamped impulse response.

Originally posted by MattStolton MattStolton wrote:

Also along the lengths of L2-L3, do these lengths of individual "pipe", i.e each length between corners/bends "resonate" or do they out of band, say 200Hz plus, or not significantly at all.
The principles of 1/4 wave resonance apply to each individual segment too, but as the segments are often relatively short and the horn path curved (corner reflectors help too), individual segment resonance in you usual sub/bass horn scarcely becomes an issue.

However, if not considered in the design process, it can easily become a peak/dip slaughterfest as you move up into the real of higher (midbass, etc.) frequencies..
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