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T Willy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T Willy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 November 2022 at 5:56pm
Originally posted by RoadRunnersDust RoadRunnersDust wrote:

Originally posted by T Willy T Willy wrote:

but ears are not deceiving.

Strongly disagree LOL 
That’s literally the whole premise of the Bose effect.

Wrong context. Sound can be deceiving to the ears, but not level. Its quite noticeable. Unless there's gremlins inside casting spells or something.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RoadRunnersDust Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 November 2022 at 6:00pm
Still going to disagree, ears are *very* easily deceived about level. That’s the whole point of the difference between Magnitude and Loudness
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BigSoundNorthWest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 November 2022 at 6:44pm
Ears can definitely be deceived as far as frequency presence too
 Psychoacoustics in action

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dylan-penguinmedia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 November 2022 at 7:08pm
Got nothing useful to add, but I’ve enjoyed reading this thread LOL

Like the old days Tongue
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T Willy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T Willy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 November 2022 at 7:10pm
Ok, let me rephrase this. Ears and objects. Ive had turntables placed directly behind the stack with no isolation pads and no issues while everything in front was knocked off shelves and what not. How ever you guys want to perceive this or start a disagreement war like the rest of this thread is, do your thing.
But id like to know what the test results find.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BigSoundNorthWest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 November 2022 at 7:32pm
I wasn't disagreeing mate, just adding something
 You're certainly not wrong 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sushi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 November 2022 at 9:03pm
Great to hear from you Toasty, totally waiting for the results of those measurements. And thank you for sharing the old thread i started almost a year ago, i thought about posting it on this one but got caught in a very busy working period and completely forgot to do it. Very interesting and valuable contribution of yours on that thread, as always!
Props!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 December 2022 at 7:42am
Originally posted by T Willy T Willy wrote:

Ok, let me rephrase this. Ears and objects. Ive had turntables placed directly behind the stack with no isolation pads and no issues while everything in front was knocked off shelves and what not. How ever you guys want to perceive this or start a disagreement war like the rest of this thread is, do your thing.
But id like to know what the test results find.


That might be something to do with the rather steep roll-off before the resonant frequency of the tone arm & chamber under the platter

Also there’s a whole wealth of psychoacoustic research and other fields that clearly show we are massively fallible & subject to bias. Particularly in the field of auditory masking, which is literally how lossy audio compression works. I’ve read too many books & spent too many hours on seminars with waaaay smarter folks than I to believe otherwise. Floyd Toole & Sean Olive call this the Circle of Confusion, and I fully recommend everyone interested in sound watch Toole’s presentation on YouTube about this sort of stuff.

I also know someone else has measured C2E Silver in equi-temporal alignment from the acoustic centre as I suggested back then, and found the rear rejection to be about the 5 dB I predicted. But since I have four microphones and an audio interface with 8 preamps, why not double check.

Edited by toastyghost - 01 December 2022 at 7:53am
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T Willy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T Willy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 December 2022 at 1:32pm
Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

Originally posted by T Willy T Willy wrote:

Ok, let me rephrase this. Ears and objects. Ive had turntables placed directly behind the stack with no isolation pads and no issues while everything in front was knocked off shelves and what not. How ever you guys want to perceive this or start a disagreement war like the rest of this thread is, do your thing.
But id like to know what the test results find.


That might be something to do with the rather steep roll-off before the resonant frequency of the tone arm & chamber under the platter

Also there’s a whole wealth of psychoacoustic research and other fields that clearly show we are massively fallible & subject to bias. Particularly in the field of auditory masking, which is literally how lossy audio compression works. I’ve read too many books & spent too many hours on seminars with waaaay smarter folks than I to believe otherwise. Floyd Toole & Sean Olive call this the Circle of Confusion, and I fully recommend everyone interested in sound watch Toole’s presentation on YouTube about this sort of stuff.

I also know someone else has measured C2E Silver in equi-temporal alignment from the acoustic centre as I suggested back then, and found the rear rejection to be about the 5 dB I predicted. But since I have four microphones and an audio interface with 8 preamps, why not double check.


Thank you Toastyghost,
I'm not ruling out the possibility of psychoacoustics or cancellations. A legitimate test would be able to determine that. Instead of guesstimates, id like to see something solid. Really appreciate the time spent on this and look forward to your results!
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concept-10 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote concept-10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 December 2022 at 6:14am
Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

Just a small update; T Willy has kindly shared his measurement data with me, and I’ve given it a look over. There are some trends present that I expected to see, but I want to gather my own data before drawing any conclusions.

Luckily, that might well be happening this weekend so… watch this space

Edit: in the meantime, some folk might have missed the discussion & modelling I did on the big boy Paraflex back at the start of this year. Here’s that old thread:
https://forum.speakerplans.com/skram-vs-c2e-subwoofers-info-research_topic106775.html

Did you get any testing done Kyle ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Battered Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 December 2022 at 8:39pm
Originally posted by Robbo Robbo wrote:

When I view the new posts and pics on this post, all I seem to think about is Mr Flared Trousers for some reason----I don't know why but has anyone else had the same thoughts or do I need to see a shrink or maybe even dementia is setting in.

That’s exactly what I thought……along with, any minute now, threats of lawyer involvement will appear. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote norty303 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 December 2022 at 8:56pm
Haven't been on the forum in years, come back to ask a simple question and so pleased to see that there are threads like this keeping the old vibe strong

Almost brings a tear to the eye....

Almost
My laser stuff: Frikkin Lasers
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