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Elliot Thompson View Drop Down
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Points: 5052 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elliot Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 August 2022 at 11:29am
Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

Oh, is this another post where you’re just going to ignore a whole pile of evidence showing that you’re wrong?

Cool; obviously you’re a much more established engineer of renown & contribution than Leach & Klippel

Actually, I put more trust in Eminence that has made loudspeakers for nearly 60 years, in addition to my own measured results through LIMP. However, if you can show me a measured result of an Le response from 100 Hz down I will stand corrected.

Are you game? LOL

Best Regards,


Edited by Elliot Thompson - 19 August 2022 at 11:48am
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Elliot Thompson View Drop Down
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Points: 5052 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elliot Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 August 2022 at 11:31am
Originally posted by snowflake snowflake wrote:

it's not really a reflex box though - I'm only getting the port output so the response of the rear chamber doesn't really matter like it does with a reflex design.

That is a Reflex.

Best Regards, 
Elliot Thompson
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fatfreddiescat View Drop Down
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Points: 1011 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatfreddiescat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 August 2022 at 11:43am
Originally posted by Elliot Thompson Elliot Thompson wrote:

Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

Oh, is this another post where you’re just going to ignore a whole pile of evidence showing that you’re wrong?

Cool; obviously you’re a much more established engineer of renown & contribution than Leach & Klippel

Actually, I put more trust in Eminence that has made loudspeakers for nearly 60 years, in addition to my own measured results through LIMP. However, if you can show me a measured result of an Le response from 100 Hz down I will stand corrected.

Are you game? LOL

Eminence, a company that put THEIR trust in Klippel LOL
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Elliot Thompson View Drop Down
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Points: 5052 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elliot Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 August 2022 at 11:53am
Originally posted by fatfreddiescat fatfreddiescat wrote:

Originally posted by Elliot Thompson Elliot Thompson wrote:

Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

Oh, is this another post where you’re just going to ignore a whole pile of evidence showing that you’re wrong?

Cool; obviously you’re a much more established engineer of renown & contribution than Leach & Klippel

Actually, I put more trust in Eminence that has made loudspeakers for nearly 60 years, in addition to my own measured results through LIMP. However, if you can show me a measured result of an Le response from 100 Hz down I will stand corrected.

Are you game? LOL

Eminence, a company that put THEIR trust in Klippel LOL


Yet, no one is debating...

Quote
Eminence

Le

This is the voice coil inductance measured in millihenries (mH). The industry standard is to measure inductance at 1,000 Hz. As frequencies get higher there will be a rise in impedance above Re. This is because the voice coil is acting as an inductor. Consequently, the impedance of a speaker is not a fixed resistance, but can be represented as a curve that changes as the input frequency changes. Maximum impedance (Zmax) occurs at Fs.



In which, I stated...

Originally posted by Elliot Thompson Elliot Thompson wrote:


It does not. This is due to the Le being based on 1 kHz on up. It does not play a factor from 100 Hz down. 

Continue.... LOLLOLLOL
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fatfreddiescat View Drop Down
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Points: 1011 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatfreddiescat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 August 2022 at 1:21pm
Originally posted by Elliot Thompson Elliot Thompson wrote:

Originally posted by fatfreddiescat fatfreddiescat wrote:

Originally posted by Elliot Thompson Elliot Thompson wrote:

Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

Oh, is this another post where you’re just going to ignore a whole pile of evidence showing that you’re wrong?

Cool; obviously you’re a much more established engineer of renown & contribution than Leach & Klippel

Actually, I put more trust in Eminence that has made loudspeakers for nearly 60 years, in addition to my own measured results through LIMP. However, if you can show me a measured result of an Le response from 100 Hz down I will stand corrected.

Are you game? LOL

Eminence, a company that put THEIR trust in Klippel LOL


Yet, no one is debating...

Quote
Eminence

Le

This is the voice coil inductance measured in millihenries (mH). The industry standard is to measure inductance at 1,000 Hz. As frequencies get higher there will be a rise in impedance above Re. This is because the voice coil is acting as an inductor. Consequently, the impedance of a speaker is not a fixed resistance, but can be represented as a curve that changes as the input frequency changes. Maximum impedance (Zmax) occurs at Fs.



In which, I stated...

Originally posted by Elliot Thompson Elliot Thompson wrote:


It does not. This is due to the Le being based on 1 kHz on up. It does not play a factor from 100 Hz down. 

Continue.... LOLLOLLOL

The info from Eminence is correct but it isn't the whole story re motor behaviour as explained in the info Toasty has linked to. It appears it becomes relevant when Le is of a similar or higher value than Re as is the case in some large VC drivers.
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Elliot Thompson View Drop Down
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Points: 5052 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elliot Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 August 2022 at 10:12am
Originally posted by fatfreddiescat fatfreddiescat wrote:


The info from Eminence is correct but it isn't the whole story re motor behaviour as explained in the info Toasty has linked to. It appears it becomes relevant when Le is of a similar or higher value than Re as is the case in some large VC drivers.

That does not play a factor when you are using a tuned port at 40 Hz - 50 Hz as snowflake is considering. The port is going to activate at the tuning frequency. 

I understand where you are coming from. However, you are still looking at things from a Horn's perspective. 

Reflex follows a different principal. Once you port a horn to extend the low frequency response, you are essentially using a combination of a horn and reflex box. By doing so, any frequencies that falls within the port's tuning needs to follow the reflex topology in order to  achieve optimum results. Hence VAS, fs and, Qts are the vital numbers. 

Best Regards,
Elliot Thompson
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snowflake View Drop Down
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Points: 2984 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snowflake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 August 2022 at 11:46am
Originally posted by Elliot Thompson Elliot Thompson wrote:

Originally posted by fatfreddiescat fatfreddiescat wrote:


The info from Eminence is correct but it isn't the whole story re motor behaviour as explained in the info Toasty has linked to. It appears it becomes relevant when Le is of a similar or higher value than Re as is the case in some large VC drivers.

That does not play a factor when you are using a tuned port at 40 Hz - 50 Hz as snowflake is considering. The port is going to activate at the tuning frequency. 

I understand where you are coming from. However, you are still looking at things from a Horn's perspective. 

Reflex follows a different principal. Once you port a horn to extend the low frequency response, you are essentially using a combination of a horn and reflex box. By doing so, any frequencies that falls within the port's tuning needs to follow the reflex topology in order to  achieve optimum results. Hence VAS, fs and, Qts are the vital numbers. 

Best Regards,




Fs Qts and Vas can be used to determine reflex alignments that have a desired response. But take the horn away from my design and sim it as a vented rear chamber and you get a huge peak at the port frequency - it's not any recognised alignment. So what use are t/s parameters selecting a driver for a ported horn?
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toastyghost View Drop Down
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Points: 10861 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 August 2022 at 6:32pm
Originally posted by Elliot Thompson Elliot Thompson wrote:

Originally posted by fatfreddiescat fatfreddiescat wrote:


The info from Eminence is correct but it isn't the whole story re motor behaviour as explained in the info Toasty has linked to. It appears it becomes relevant when Le is of a similar or higher value than Re as is the case in some large VC drivers.


That does not play a factor when you are using a tuned port at 40 Hz - 50 Hz as snowflake is considering. The port is going to activate at the tuning frequency. 

I understand where you are coming from. However, you are still looking at things from a Horn's perspective. 

Reflex follows a different principal. Once you port a horn to extend the low frequency response, you are essentially using a combination of a horn and reflex box. By doing so, any frequencies that falls within the port's tuning needs to follow the reflex topology in order to  achieve optimum results. Hence VAS, fs and, Qts are the vital numbers. 

Best Regards,




All of Klippel’s work is based on sealed and ported enclosures you might realise that if you read any of it

Edited by toastyghost - 20 August 2022 at 6:33pm
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Contour View Drop Down
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Points: 609 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Contour Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 August 2022 at 8:36am
Slot ports mostly have an advantage above round ports because they are using the cabinet walls and often have larger cross section (and length). For equal cross section I personally prefer round ports with large flares. For example the Intertechnik Jetset series.  
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snowflake View Drop Down
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Points: 2984 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snowflake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 August 2022 at 10:40am
Originally posted by Contour Contour wrote:

For example the Intertechnik Jetset series.  


I've never seen a flared port bigger than 100mm though and with these drivers need more than that.
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You can use more, but I agree, with large drivers the advantage is shifting to slot port, also much cheaper. 
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