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SMAART interpretation please

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jamie-ashton-solo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jamie-ashton-solo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 January 2019 at 12:18pm
the driver is fed with 1 amp to the 2 and 1 so the 1 can't be flipped with dsp, they could flip both with dsp however this then puts a big hole at 450hz making the 2" out. Looking at the picture of the other guys vqnets being flipped at the 1" suggests that must be what they have decided to do.  There is no crossover in the cabs so they are just letting the 2 and 1 run to there natural roll off points. 
The only thing I'm wondering now is without the flip, that phase trace sits pretty well around 0° but has the dip in response, but with it I get an extra phase line starting from 7k up. So in a perfect world, would the trace be a horizontal line like first screenshot? If so that suggests to Me that delaying the 1" would give much better results than flipping polarity?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 January 2019 at 1:08pm
Yes, there is usually a passive xover or active DSP on those drivers that uses a filter set to introduce delay. It suggests yours is missing a component, to be honest.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jamie-ashton-solo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 January 2019 at 1:30pm
Yes that has crossed my mind.
I'll post some pictures for you to look at. See what you think. 

The first two are of my board and driver. The 3rd is the other guys. It's the same board, same driver, only difference is the 1" is inverted at the driver on his.


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gen0me View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gen0me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 January 2019 at 7:27pm
Originally posted by jamie-ashton-solo jamie-ashton-solo wrote:


If blue is -,brown is + than both are wired with voltage drop from red terminal to black terminal on driver. With only passive cap on one section.


Edited by gen0me - 24 January 2019 at 8:44pm
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jamie-ashton-solo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jamie-ashton-solo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 January 2019 at 7:31pm
No this is the layout I bought them with from the previous owner.
This way creates a dip at 7k.
I have since inverted the 1" to remove the dip which smoothes the response and has a better sound. 
Picture 3 shows somebody else's vqs also with the 1" inverted.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarjanM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 January 2019 at 8:50pm
Hmm, that still does not seem right to me. Flipping the polaroty does fix the responce, but the phase is wrong. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gen0me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 January 2019 at 8:52pm
.

Edited by gen0me - 24 January 2019 at 9:10pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jamie-ashton-solo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 January 2019 at 10:06pm
I'm really lost with all this now. That's what I thought.  The phase is right but that gives the dip and lack of hf presence. 
Or I flip the 1" and the response is flat but the phase is wrong.
I tried every combination last night and measured all and the best phase and frequency response I got was with the 12s and 2" flipped.
I don't know what to do now with it all. 
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bee View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 January 2019 at 10:35pm
can you measure each driver separately and show all data on same graph, un wire each driver take readings and post up using xover board. something funky defo going on.
 
to add... has any of the drivers ever been reconed.


Edited by bee - 24 January 2019 at 10:36pm
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gen0me View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gen0me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 January 2019 at 10:48pm
Photo voice coils to show wiring and connections or draw schematic.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 January 2019 at 10:53pm
It's tiny, but here's the BMS factory provided crossover board:


And here's the same driver, and similar horn, using a crossover, wired as normal polarity

https://blog-001.west.edge.storage-yahoo.jp/res/blog-fe-e6/bamboo_bun6/folder/975584/51/25364651/img_0

I'm very surprised if that's all they've used in that box, purely passive and natural rolloff. Mostly because the VHF diaphragms on these drivers can pop easily at full tilt, even with the passive the factory provide.

Edited by toastyghost - 24 January 2019 at 10:54pm
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jamie-ashton-solo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jamie-ashton-solo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 January 2019 at 10:54pm
Yes will do that. Will be Wednesday again now though. 
The seller didn't mention any reconing but can't be sure of that. 
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