Small 2-way cabinet plans/ideas wanted

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   Hello all! I have been asked if I could make 4 small cabinets for the local pub. And I am talking small! They are to be secured to the walls, and they want something like a hi-fi or studio monitor sized speaker (very general I know, but I would say 20" height, 15" width, depth whatever necessary), with a 8" or 10" driver and probably a piezzo tweeter, as price is a major issue. 

I have explained that you cant achieve the impossible, ie get great sound, from a tiny cabinet, that costs peanuts. But the response was "well hi-fi speakers are small and sound good. We just want them to sound like that, but be much louder".

I think its a case of telling them to just go and buy something that they think will do the job, but first I would like to see if I can build anything.

Does anyone know of anywhere I can get some ideas or plans? 

Thanks, Paul

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OpusPaul Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Registered User Joined: 02 March 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 65	Post Options Post Reply Quote OpusPaul Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Small 2-way cabinet plans/ideas wanted Posted: 25 October 2007 at 10:06pm
	Hello all! I have been asked if I could make 4 small cabinets for the local pub. And I am talking small! They are to be secured to the walls, and they want something like a hi-fi or studio monitor sized speaker (very general I know, but I would say 20" height, 15" width, depth whatever necessary), with a 8" or 10" driver and probably a piezzo tweeter, as price is a major issue. I have explained that you cant achieve the impossible, ie get great sound, from a tiny cabinet, that costs peanuts. But the response was "well hi-fi speakers are small and sound good. We just want them to sound like that, but be much louder". I think its a case of telling them to just go and buy something that they think will do the job, but first I would like to see if I can build anything. Does anyone know of anywhere I can get some ideas or plans? Thanks, Paul

Disco Stu Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 03 March 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 2487	Post Options Post Reply Quote Disco Stu Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 25 October 2007 at 11:08pm
	Youre right they are somewhat deluded, youre the sound engineer they should stick to pulling pints When they say "much louder" how much louder do you think they mean? Are they talking club loud? Forget it Also you havent mentioned an exact budget so what I am going to suggest might be way off You could go for something like a Volt dual concentric 8" in a box - talk to markie he has done a design like this thats full range but again aint gonna have serious lows, still only going to be loud background music volume. Another alternative is to look at a design like a mini line array with lots of 4" drivers check out www.billfitzmaurice.com and look up the TLAH or the Short Line Array (SLA) The more drivers the higher the sensitivity and the higher the power handling, BUT more drivers = more cost so choose your source well. Either way there isnt a lot to choose from really, you either have to accept the volume limitations of an 8" or go for larger, more powerful, more expensive speakers. You cant expect miracles. Just as an afterthought looking at your size specs perhaps half sized Omni 10s from Bill fitzmaurice site, 10" driver (hornloaded for better sensitivity) and 2-4 piezos per cab, no crossover required - cab geometry takes care of that. Using Eminence Beta 10 £39 + 2x £2 = £43 of drivers plus the wood and fixtures and fittings = possibly just squeeze out around £80 a cab. Placing them in corners will help the bass response. But its a 20Wx16Dx14H" box is that too big? Stu Edited by Disco Stu - 25 October 2007 at 11:09pm
	All you need to know is: Sensitivity + Power Handling - Power Compression = Max Output My acts: www.myspace.com/thebowiexperience www.myspace.com/scheisseelektronisches

OpusPaul Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Registered User Joined: 02 March 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 65	Post Options Post Reply Quote OpusPaul Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 25 October 2007 at 11:30pm
	Thats a big help Stu, thank you. That box size should be ok, and I had hinted to them that £100 per box would be the very cheapest price. I think I have a new Beta 10 burried somewhere in the garage, so I'll get on the case this weekend, and build one cabinet to get an idea. As you say, you cant expect miracle results at this level of budget and size, but its all extra building experience for me. Will go have a look at Bill fitzmaurice now. Cheers Stu!

Disco Stu Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 03 March 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 2487	Post Options Post Reply Quote Disco Stu Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 25 October 2007 at 11:45pm
	Alternative of course is the Deltalite 2510 but unless you really need to get the weight down the Beta 10 does just as well I have been quite happy with the box - see my hybrid version of it here http://www.speakerplans.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9349&KW=&PID=85733#85733 If youre in my area (Bournemouth - Dorset) you can have the MDF prototype to test out, otherwise its a pretty cheap build. PM me your email for more details/photos etc. Stu Edited by Disco Stu - 25 October 2007 at 11:52pm
	All you need to know is: Sensitivity + Power Handling - Power Compression = Max Output My acts: www.myspace.com/thebowiexperience www.myspace.com/scheisseelektronisches

HansA Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Registered User Joined: 07 March 2007 Location: Norway Status: Offline Points: 595	Post Options Post Reply Quote HansA Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 26 October 2007 at 12:21am
	What about a 10-12" coaxial?
	��o�O�o��: HansA, The FUBAR sound technician :��o�O�o��

ceharden Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List The 10,000 Points Club Joined: 05 June 2005 Location: Southampton Status: Offline Points: 11776	Post Options Post Reply Quote ceharden Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 26 October 2007 at 12:14pm
	At the level you're talking there is actually very little benefit to building cabs. You can't make them any cheaper than you can buy them ready-made. Someone on here is selling a set of 5 RCF Monitor 8's for a bargin price. I'd recommend just using something like that. Bluearan have some new Proel install cabs again for way cheaper than you can build them. Sad but true....

HansA Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Registered User Joined: 07 March 2007 Location: Norway Status: Offline Points: 595	Post Options Post Reply Quote HansA Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 26 October 2007 at 12:19pm
	Good point Ceharden.
	��o�O�o��: HansA, The FUBAR sound technician :��o�O�o��

Disco Stu Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 03 March 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 2487	Post Options Post Reply Quote Disco Stu Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 26 October 2007 at 12:21pm
	The benefit is getting more bang for your buck - the average 8" is under 95dB av. sensitivity the horn loaded 10" is 100dB, which is a huge difference when talking about overall SPL - dont forget they wanted loud not just background music volume RCF Monitor 8s, JBL Control 1s, those sorts of cabs have their benefits for background music but I dont think without a decent sub they are going to cut it for loud reproduction. Maybe we can get some more info if Paul posts better details of the size of the room? Stu
	All you need to know is: Sensitivity + Power Handling - Power Compression = Max Output My acts: www.myspace.com/thebowiexperience www.myspace.com/scheisseelektronisches