Small sound install advice |
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dmr
Registered User Joined: 30 July 2015 Status: Offline Points: 57 |
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Posted: 18 January 2019 at 2:27pm |
Hi all,
I'm going to be involved with a small sound install at where I work and I'd like some advice as i'm not necessarily a sound person -Venue is a hall of 300 capacity seated measuring approx 14 x 20 meters -Program material is varied from theatrical productions, speech to live sound but no need for in-your-face club levels -Budget is 4k GBP -Ideally tops thats have a pole mount or frame that allows them to be popped on a tripod for use elsewhere My thoughts were a pair of hunky 15+comps tops flown nice and high with couple of single 18s under the stageso something like: -LS ML15 -Martin Blackline X15 -Turbosound TCS152 -Maybe a used Nexo PS15 tops+controller if within budget And generic 18" reflexes (this will probabaly come later because of £££) Power from EV Q1212 amp and Driverack PA2 processor Anyone got anything bad or good to say about the above choices? Or other recommendations? Cheers
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mini-mad
Old Croc Joined: 13 July 2012 Location: london Status: Offline Points: 6903 |
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WHAT sort of venue is this?
Seated?... then why not smaller boxes down the length and a pair of large boxes at the end (where you have a stage?) |
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If it sounds like a gorilla is trying to escape, turn it down.
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dmr
Registered User Joined: 30 July 2015 Status: Offline Points: 57 |
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Think village hall style venue - tiered seating going in at one end, stage at the other
I assumed a pair of bigger boxes will be cheaper than 4 smaller ones, and with the ability to be used elsewhere.
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mini-mad
Old Croc Joined: 13 July 2012 Location: london Status: Offline Points: 6903 |
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And this is mostly for village productions and small scale live band work?... local dance productions and the like?
My personal opinion is to not to use 15+HF boxes. Never really liked the way they reproduce vocals. Late 2x installed I did I had flown double 6.5+HF boxes and 15"s scattered around so that the bass wasn't all blasted from one place so the over all volume could be kept down. What not aim for 12+HF and dump 4x 18" reflex under the stage with possible 2x further 10+HF boxes half way down the hall so you're not cranking the stage boxes up and blasting the front row? |
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If it sounds like a gorilla is trying to escape, turn it down.
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haymere
Young Croc Joined: 28 December 2007 Location: Liverpuddle Status: Offline Points: 585 |
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Sounds like Orbits would be perfect for what you want
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mini-mad
Old Croc Joined: 13 July 2012 Location: london Status: Offline Points: 6903 |
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Or 2x systems?
A stereo pair of 100v line with 4x speakers going down each side of the wall for non "party" stuff... and semi-installed system with tops on sticks with the subs permanently installed under stage. This way you can get the tops out for fun stuff (having a box on each side of the stage with a speakon socket and a 3m patch lead to go from wall to top box) that way all the amps/processing can be racked with a radio Mic system all racked together with the mixer not far away on a snake. This should make you fairly versatile as you could have a second set of wall mounted speakon boxes at the other end should you want the top boxes there for other things... I'm just trying to make it more plug and play so you just move minimal hardware but using a centralised rack and with the mixer on a snake you should be able to keep most people happy with its use. The 100v line system in place would be ideal for TED talks and town meetings... and when the fun starts switch over to the larger system all from the same rack And processing station. |
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If it sounds like a gorilla is trying to escape, turn it down.
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spongebob
Young Croc Joined: 20 October 2010 Status: Offline Points: 1395 |
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Yamaha DXR
For the love of all that's holey don't use a driverack!!!!! Edited by spongebob - 18 January 2019 at 10:50pm |
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mini-mad
Old Croc Joined: 13 July 2012 Location: london Status: Offline Points: 6903 |
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Good chance to sell the old gear here and add to the budget, but simple boxes on sticks I don't believe is the answer... you just end up with the front row telling you to turn it down and the back row asking you to turn it up... |
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If it sounds like a gorilla is trying to escape, turn it down.
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dmr
Registered User Joined: 30 July 2015 Status: Offline Points: 57 |
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Multiple boxes it is - we use a pair of HK pro12" on sticks at the moment which get rinsed hard, I don't know much about the brand but they sound nice to my ears however horrifically inefficient.
Maybe stick these down the hall mid way and get a pair of X12 or DXR12 up front? Also, DBMark DP26 a better choice?
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ceharden
The 10,000 Points Club Joined: 05 June 2005 Location: Southampton Status: Offline Points: 11776 |
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Don't over-complicate it.
Your original suggestion probably isn't far off, other than I'd echo the advice to give the dBx Driverack a miss. Either look out for a used BSS/XTA unit or dBMark probably offer the best value for new. Some of the comments about 15" tops not doing vocals and distributed system being better but realistically, if you go for decent boxes (e.g. PS15's, not the X15) and get the position and angle of them right, you'll be fine. Lots of small theatres run exactly that. If you decide you need something more distributed later, a pair of smaller (8") boxes halfway down the room would help but then you're into needing to set up delays, more amp channels etc. On a small budget it's best to concentrate on buying a few good bits of kit than lots of budget gear. If you go down the 15" mid-top route, make sure you choose something with a large format compression driver (1.4" or 2" exit) because the lower crossover point helps to avoid the hole in the midrange you get with a 15"+1" 'Disco' box. The EV amp would be ok but there are plenty of options that give similar performance. There are almost certainly some bargains to be had on the second hand market if you know what you're looking for. For example, on https://www.facebook.com/groups/nationalprolightingandsoundswapshop/ there is currently a DB system of 2 active 18" subs, 2 active 2x12" mid-tops for under £3k. Weakest link in that is probably the 1" compression driver but maybe not a ridiculous option. Edited by ceharden - 18 January 2019 at 11:52pm |
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mini-mad
Old Croc Joined: 13 July 2012 Location: london Status: Offline Points: 6903 |
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I didn't say they can't do vocals I said I don't like the way they reproduce them. I've never hear a 15" top box I like the sound of on vocals. That's my opinion... and I'm pretty sure it's ok to have an opinion.
Yes I may have over complicated it a tad... but once installed would run fine and should any once else that doesn't know need to use it it will be simple to operate... just plug the tops in where you want them and crack on! It's all about would you would like and what you believe is simple and effective for your venue. I just don't believe sticking it all down one end is the answer... and until I hear a 15" top box that reproduces vocal better then a driver at least half it size I'll keep to the small drivers. |
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If it sounds like a gorilla is trying to escape, turn it down.
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ceharden
The 10,000 Points Club Joined: 05 June 2005 Location: Southampton Status: Offline Points: 11776 |
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For clarity, I wasn't intending to completely dismiss your suggestions but from experience, if we're talking about a multi-purpose room, on a tight budget, to be used by a variety of people, some perhaps without much technical knowledge, a simple and rugged system is likely to be the sensible, if perhaps not the optimum solution.
Which is where things like the PS15's with the dedicated controller make a lot of sense. Can be set up to be fairly idiot proof. I far prefer my twin 12" boxes for their midrange than my 15"+1.4", however for the majority of the gigs I do, the 15" boxes do a perfectly adequate job. |
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