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Sockets/Plugs & Wiring Configurations |
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4D 
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Joined: 13 November 2008 Location: Winchester Status: Offline Points: 4241 |
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 Posted: 19 May 2023 at 9:22am |
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Fit all cabinets with NL4 chassis mount sockets link pins internally between sockets.
Wire sub drivers to 1+1- Wire Tops to 2+2- Use 4 x 4mm speaker cable fitted with NL4fx from amps to cabinets 2 x long leads 4 x short link leads At the rack a patch panel with 1x nl4 sockets & 2x nl4fx tails per side Wired 1+1- to the sub amp 2+2- to the tops. Use long cable from rack to any cabinet and short links between cabinets |
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DMZ. "The bass was intense. Girls were literally running up to stand next to the subs"
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SnailSpace
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Joined: 08 December 2022 Status: Offline Points: 193 |
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Posted: 19 May 2023 at 12:02pm |
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4D HIGH x2 Horns Horn: https://peavey.com/rx-22-ct-driver/p/03616190 Amp: https://www.qsc.com/resource-files/productresources/amp/discontinued/usa/q_amp_usa_series_specs.pdf UPPER MID x2 12” Dual Cabs x4 Jamo: https://hifi-wiki.com/index.php/Jamo_D_265 Amp: https://www.qsc.com/solutions-products/power-amplifiers/portable/2-channel/gx-series/gx3/ LOWER MID x2 15” Dual Cabs x4 PV BW: https://peavey.com/black-widow-1508-4-sps-bwx-speaker/p/00560140 Amp: https://www.crownaudio.com/en/products/xli3500 BASS x2 W Bins: x2 Omega https://eminence.com/products/omega_pro_15a BASS x4 EV Cubo: x4 Kappa https://eminence.com/products/kappa_pro_15lf2 Amp: https://www.behringer.com/product.html?modelCode=P0B1Q DSP: dB-XCA 28 - 8 out 2 in https://dbmark.co.uk/products.php?i=XCAX A. Fit all cabinets with NL4 chassis mount sockets link pins internally between sockets. Q. So in the case of the dual driver cabs are they still wired internally in series? (Am I adding an IN & OUT Socket on each cab so I can link with short runs, use as one stack or as 2 stacks. More options basically.) But if they are wired in series internally with socket links and then I link the other cab via a short external link does this not change the impedence or is it ok! —- A. Wire sub drivers to 1+1- A. Wire Tops to 2+2- Q. When you say ‘Tops’ I presume you mean anything that isn’t Bass ie Lower Mid/Upper Mid/Horns? On the back of the Behringer in the INPUT section it has a STEREO/MONO switch and CROSSOVER switch that says HF as CH-A & LF as CH-B, on the OUT side it has a diagram saying CH-A as 1+1- and CH-B as 2+2- I presume this is stereo? Then a diagram saying CH-B as 1+1-, I presume this is MONO. The person I bought the EV Cubos off ran them as his bass with x2 Omega & x2 Kappa no problems. I bought x2 Kappa so the EV Cubos now have x4 Kappa. I will load the x2 Omega into the W Bins. So how do I run all x6 combined as my Bass section through the iNuke & 8 Out DSP I have? —- A. Use 4 x 4mm speaker cable fitted with NL4fx from amps to cabinets A. 2 x long leads/4 x short link leads Q. Why only x2 long leads? Wouldn’t it be x1 long run from Horns, x1 long run Upper Mid, x1 long run Lower Mid & x1 long run Bass? Short link leads - x1 Horns, x1 Upper Mids, x1 Lower Mids & x1 Bass? —- A. At the rack a patch panel with 1x nl4 sockets & 2x nl4fx tails per side wired 1+1- to the sub amp 2+2- to the tops. Q. Bit confused by this? A 18” mounted patch panel? Why not just go direct to Amp? What’s a tail? (Apologies for the amount of follow up questions & thanks for info) Edited by SnailSpace - 19 May 2023 at 1:20pm |
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Conanski
Old Croc
Joined: 26 January 2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 2426 |
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Posted: 19 May 2023 at 3:07pm |
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The two drivers in series inside the cab will have a nominal impedance of 8ohms, and if you do the calculation for just the wire lenth inside the cab which is only about 3ft... it will say 14ga is sufficient and that is good because it makes attaching the wire to the speakons and speaker terminals easier and puts less stress on those connections. The length outside the cab between the boxes and amplifier can be 12ga, you could get away with 14ga here too given the relatively low power levels involved but to future proof the system get 12ga wire. |
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SnailSpace
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Joined: 08 December 2022 Status: Offline Points: 193 |
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Posted: 20 May 2023 at 11:46pm |
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Makes sense to future proof it better to be safe than sorry as I think my long runs are 16awg. I have a bag of shorter runs maybe in 12awg but I really need a AWG metal tool to be sure.
From my calculations I had 16awg down as being ok across 5-10m On tops but 12a for bass / so may as well do it all in 12awg to be sure.
https://soundcertified.com/what-size-speaker-wire-guide/ Cable Length / Amplifier RMS / Speaker Impedence HIGH - QSC USA 850/900 - 10m/270/8ohm = 16awg UPPER MID - QSC GX3 - 5-10m/300w per channel/8ohm = 16awg LOWER MID - Crown XLI 3500 - 5-10m/1350w/4ohm = 12awg BASS - |
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RoadRunnersDust
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Joined: 03 December 2013 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 482 |
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Posted: 21 May 2023 at 12:02pm |
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The power level has basically nothing to do with cable gauge for “low impedance speaker” audio. The most important consideration when specifying cable gauge is the ratio between the impedance of the cable and the impedance of the load. A good rule of thumb for this at lengths up to 20m is that you should have 2mm^2 for every 8 Ohm of load. This means that for 4 Ohms of total load you would need 4mm^2 of total CSA. Since it’s easy to get to a requirement for 16mm^2 of cable like that and the impracticality of fitting that to a speakon, you see professional systems end up with Socapex and squids
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Conanski
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Joined: 26 January 2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 2426 |
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Posted: 22 May 2023 at 1:01am |
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RoadRunnersDust
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Posted: 22 May 2023 at 1:59am |
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Well yes... the CSA of the copper will define it's impedance for a given distance. I never said to ignore the gauge however, I said that the impedance of the cable in relation to the driver is the main concern, not the power being output by the amplifier.
the primary cause of loss for low impedance speaker systems is the potential divider formed by Zcable:Zdriver. If you have 5% loss in your cable due to the impedance ratio it doesn't matter if you're delivering 50W or 5,000W, you're going to lose 5%. It's also not really the primary goal once you look at how loudspeakers work. Dealing with speakers that are only 1-2% efficient the difference in a couple of percent cable loss is pretty insignificant. Power is cheap and readily available. The primary benefit of a good cable:driver impedance ratio is that you minimise the short circuit impedance presented to the driver when it is being arrested by it's own back-EMF, the benefits of which are easy to demonstrate with a simple A/B test just by swapping a speaker lead.
In doing that you reach near enough to the correct answer even if the reasoning and intent behind it was incorrect. |
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SnailSpace
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Posted: 22 May 2023 at 8:34am |
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CONANSKI & 4D: given 4D’s suggestion I have a few questions below, I’ve listed what I will be using in System. HIGH x2 Horns Horn: https://peavey.com/rx-22-ct-driver/p/03616190 Amp: https://www.qsc.com/resource-files/productresources/amp/discontinued/usa/q_amp_usa_series_specs.pdf UPPER MID x2 12” Dual Cabs x4 Jamo: https://hifi-wiki.com/index.php/Jamo_D_265 Amp: https://www.qsc.com/solutions-products/power-amplifiers/portable/2-channel/gx-series/gx3/ LOWER MID x2 15” Dual Cabs x4 PV BW: https://peavey.com/black-widow-1508-4-sps-bwx-speaker/p/00560140 Amp: https://www.crownaudio.com/en/products/xli3500 BASS x2 W Bins: x2 Omega https://eminence.com/products/omega_pro_15a BASS x4 EV Cubo: x4 Kappa https://eminence.com/products/kappa_pro_15lf2 Amp: https://www.behringer.com/product.html?modelCode=P0B1Q DSP: dB-XCA 28 - 8 out 2 in https://dbmark.co.uk/products.php?i=XCAX A. Fit all cabinets with NL4 chassis mount sockets link pins internally between sockets. Q. So in the case of the dual driver cabs are they still wired internally in series? (Am I adding an IN & OUT Socket on each cab so I can link with short runs, use as one stack or as 2 stacks. More options basically.) But if they are wired in series internally with socket links and then I link the other cab via a short external link does this not change the impedence or is it ok! —- A. Wire sub drivers to 1+1- A. Wire Tops to 2+2- Q. When you say ‘Tops’ I presume you mean anything that isn’t Bass ie Lower Mid/Upper Mid/Horns? On the back of the Behringer in the INPUT section it has a STEREO/MONO switch and CROSSOVER switch that says HF as CH-A & LF as CH-B, on the OUT side it has a diagram saying CH-A as 1+1- and CH-B as 2+2- I presume this is stereo? Then a diagram saying CH-B as 1+1-, I presume this is MONO. The person I bought the EV Cubos off ran them as his bass with x2 Omega & x2 Kappa no problems. I bought x2 Kappa so the EV Cubos now have x4 Kappa. I will load the x2 Omega into the W Bins. So how do I run all x6 combined as my Bass section through the iNuke & 8 Out DSP I have? —- A. Use 4 x 4mm speaker cable fitted with NL4fx from amps to cabinets A. 2 x long leads/4 x short link leads Q. Why only x2 long leads? Wouldn’t it be x1 long run from Horns, x1 long run Upper Mid, x1 long run Lower Mid & x1 long run Bass? Short link leads - x1 Horns, x1 Upper Mids, x1 Lower Mids & x1 Bass? —- A. At the rack a patch panel with 1x nl4 sockets & 2x nl4fx tails per side wired 1+1- to the sub amp 2+2- to the tops. Q. Bit confused by this? A 18” mounted patch panel? Why not just go direct to Amp? What’s a tail? (Apologies for |
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4D
Old Croc
Joined: 13 November 2008 Location: Winchester Status: Offline Points: 4241 |
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Posted: 22 May 2023 at 9:57am |
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Hi I will reply. When I get to a desktop and can spend the time to unravel your post../tx
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DMZ. "The bass was intense. Girls were literally running up to stand next to the subs"
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RoadRunnersDust
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Joined: 03 December 2013 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 482 |
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Posted: 22 May 2023 at 11:22am |
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These are very low power, old, cheap HiFi drivers. Have you actually been using the system with them? If so, I'm amazed you haven't blown them up yet! These should be wired in series inside the cabinets and connected to 1+/- on the NL4MPs.
These should be wired in series inside the cabinet and connected to 1+/- on the NL4MPs
Mixing two different types of bass bin and two different types of drivers will make this *much* harder for you. It is generally inadvisable as the interaction between the two different speakers invariably causes more issues than you gain by having more speakers. Regardless, these should also be wired with the drivers to 1+/- of the NL4MPs A. Fit all cabinets with NL4 chassis mount sockets link pins internally between sockets. Q. So in the case of the dual driver cabs are they still wired internally in series? (Am I adding an IN & OUT Socket on each cab so I can link with short runs, use as one stack or as 2 stacks. More options basically.) But if they are wired in series internally with socket links and then I link the other cab via a short external link does this not change the impedence or is it ok! A. Wire sub drivers to 1+1- A. Wire Tops to 2+2-
Q. When you say ‘Tops’ I presume you mean anything that isn’t Bass ie Lower Mid/Upper Mid/Horns? On the back of the Behringer in the INPUT section it has a STEREO/MONO switch Then a diagram saying CH-B as 1+1-, I presume this is MONO. A. Use 4 x 4mm speaker cable fitted with NL4fx from amps to cabinets A. 2 x long leads/4 x short link leads Q. Why only x2 long leads? Short link leads - x1 Horns, x1 Upper Mids, x1 Lower Mids & x1 Bass? A. At the rack a patch panel with 1x nl4 sockets & 2x nl4fx tails per side wired 1+1- to the sub amp 2+2- to the tops. Q. Bit confused by this? A 18” mounted patch panel? Why not just go direct to Amp? What’s a tail? |
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SnailSpace
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Joined: 08 December 2022 Status: Offline Points: 193 |
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Posted: 22 May 2023 at 12:09pm |
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Thanks RoadRunnersDust!
Yeah I think my Jamos are the talk of this forum anyway I’ll just be using the 12” driver to see how they sound as Upper Mid but when I look at replacements I’m getting similar specs. If I sold them I’d probably get £200 and could add some more £ but right now money is needed for other things. Whilst I’m testing the system settings in early days I’ll be very cautious and won’t be pushing it too much! But recommendations of suitable drivers at around the £60-80 price mark on BlueAran are welcome!Back to the MONO question, when I switch this to MONO is this BRIDGED MONO MODE on the Behringer? Do I use CHA & CHB in Bridged MONO Mode? & do I put the XOVER Switch to LF?
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RoadRunnersDust
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Posted: 22 May 2023 at 12:14pm |
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I don’t think that iNuke supports bridge mode at all
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SnailSpace wrote: