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    Posted: 12 February 2019 at 9:22am
Done some serious reading of the newb reading section. One thing I wondered was, what software do you guys favour in designing cabs and x-overs ?

Thanks in advance...


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote DMorison Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 February 2019 at 1:51pm
For basic modelling of the LF end of sealed and vented cabs, WinISD is popular.
For more advanced acoustic loading (anything horn based, Transmission lines, etc) Hornresp.
For Passive crossovers, XSim or VituixCAD2.
Note that for any remotely credible crossover modelling, you need either real world measurements of your drivers in representative boxes, or know how to derive reliable simulated in-box measurements: https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/simulated-measurements.
Don't forget to pay close attention to the off axis responses as well as on-axis too Wink
HTH,
David.

Edit - typo in program name.


Edited by DMorison - 17 February 2019 at 1:56pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Radius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 February 2019 at 3:20pm
Thanks for the response David - so it seems I have underestimated the amount of kit required. An impedance ( AC) tester is a must, £244 I saw ...but the inductor coils may be the biggest challenge to get right, unless my basic understanding is far off ...are there any programmes that help , or will x sim do the job ?

cheers man !

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote studio45 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 February 2019 at 3:40pm
Ah, yes there is a good shareware program available called ARTA Suite, one component of which is called Limp (loudspeaker impedance measuring program) - this will measure the impedance vs frequency curve of a loudspeaker or any other 2-terminal component, which is hugely useful in itself, but it also will automatically calculate a precise inductance, resistance and capacitance value for any point on said curve. So, you can use it to measure inductors! More precisely than any meter, too....

You need to make a small bit of hardware to allow it to work. It uses your soundcard's headphone output or a small power amp to send a signal to the DUT through a known value of resistance, then measures the voltage drop across that resistor. From this is can work out the AC current flowing and hence the impedance. 
So, you need to make a box that has, eg, a 10 ohm resistor in series with the + line of your headphone/amp output, and a pair of screw terminals for attaching components on the other side. Then you make a connection to each end of the resistor and take those back to the L and R line inputs of your soundcard. This allows the software to see what it needs to in order to measure the impedance.

There is a clearer explanation of how to build it on the website.....http://www.artalabs.hr/ 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Radius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 February 2019 at 5:42pm
Spot on Man- so in effect a home made meter... I will definitely check this and all of the other software suggestions. Greatly appreciated.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Xoc1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 February 2019 at 8:59pm
OMG my Daughter has gone prog rock!
http://www.strangeredearth.com/videos/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Radius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 February 2019 at 8:37am
Some amazing software lists here guys-thanks.

I stumbled on this speaker analyser, would it be able to measure a speaker on a crossover ? ( naïve question, but worth checking before adding to the list of "must haves"...

Dayton Audio Dats speaker tester

looks like you can get on ebay for about £127 if you're not stateside....

Any good do you think ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote fatfreddiescat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 February 2019 at 9:29am
Another very useful software package is Room EQ Wizard (REW), also has T/S measurement capability.
There is a lot of useful info in the user guides for much of the software mentioned so far, maybe worth reading up on T/S measurement in REW and ARTA before splashing the cash.
If you find yourself using one of the free software packages and have some cash to spare, I'm sure a donation however small to the respective author would be welcomed.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Radius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 February 2019 at 1:14pm
Hi Appreciate the sound advice. Definitely where its a labour of love already, its wise to keep costs down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote snowflake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 February 2019 at 2:16pm
Originally posted by DMorison DMorison wrote:

For basic modelling of the LF end of sealed and vented cabs, WinISD is popular.
For more advanced acoustic loading (anything horn based, Transmission lines, etc) Hornresp.
For Passive crossovers, XSim or VirtuixCAD2.
Note that for any remotely credible crossover modelling, you need either real world measurements of your drivers in representative boxes, or know how to derive reliable simulated in-box measurements: https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/simulated-measurements.
Don't forget to pay close attention to the off axis responses as well as on-axis too Wink
HTH,
David.


the Response Modeler spreadsheet is useful. But it runs really slowly. I think I might not have the dll file in the right place. How do you know/change what the default folder is in Windows10? when I SaveAs it just seems to go to the last folder that I used.

http://audio.claub.net/software/jbabgy/FRM.html

Phil
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote DMorison Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 February 2019 at 2:33pm
Sorry Phil, I haven't used that SW at all (and indeed, am a Win7 dinosaur too), so not sure I can help with that one I'm afraid.
On my version of Excel, you can check the default folder from File>Options>Save as shown here:

No idea if it's the same in your versions of Win & Excel though.
Hope that helps,
David.


Edited by DMorison - 14 February 2019 at 2:34pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote studio45 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 February 2019 at 4:41pm
Originally posted by Radius Radius wrote:

Some amazing software lists here guys-thanks.

I stumbled on this speaker analyser, would it be able to measure a speaker on a crossover ? ( naïve question, but worth checking before adding to the list of "must haves"...

Dayton Audio Dats speaker tester

looks like you can get on ebay for about £127 if you're not stateside....

Any good do you think ?

That device is just like the ARTA Box with a built-in power amp and USB interface, so if you already have an amp and interface, it's a bit of a waste of money IMO. 
Not sure what you mean by "a speaker on a crossover" but if you mean can you take an impedance plot of a complete box with a passive crossover and driver, then yes you can - and it can be hugely illuminating. For example it allows you to see the real tuning frequency(s) of a reflex or bandpass design, it allows you to see reflections in horns, you can turn up the test signal and see how the plot changes with applied power or over time....it's a very, very powerful tool. 

You can also use the box with other programs apart from LIMP. For example if you want to measure the electrical transfer function of one part of a passive crossover, you can use the built-in signal pads to drop those loudspeaker-level signals to line-level in order to use a 2-channel FFT (eg the ARTA program itself, or SMAART, REW etc) to generate the plot. (Reference channel from input of x-over, measurement from the output you want to plot). 
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