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Soul, Afro, Reggae system new build

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hansmoleman View Drop Down
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    Posted: 28 April 2017 at 2:36pm
Hey,

Any advice/general guidance would be much appreciated. 

We run parties generally indoors for around 150 - 200 ppl. We play Soul, Afro, Disco, Reggae and some House and Electronic music, all from vinyl. 

We have been renting equipment for the last couple of years (HK Audio and Funktion One) but are keen to finally make the switch and build our own system. We want to start smallish but have the potential to expand. 

We really want to make the system sound as good as possible, we don't have a huge budget but would be keen to go for quality over quantity at this point in time.

My thoughts are a 3 way system using the Eighteen sound designs made up of:
2x Eighteen sound  http://www.eighteen.com/als/0/EnclosuresKits/18_15%202ways.pdf - 2 WAY 15" LOUDSPEAKER SYSTEM for our mid-tops a
2x Eighteen sound http://www.eighteen.com/als/0/EnclosuresKits/18_18_dual_subwoofer_kit.pdf - 18" DUAL SUBWOOFER G-sub type design for bass. 

I would consider using their recommended drivers unless people advise otherwise? 

I've been advised that SAE amps are good option for the Bass amp, is this correct? What amps should we be thinking about for the mid-tops? QSC?  

What do you think of this set up based on the kind of music we will be playing and the quality of the overall sound?

We have a friend who is experienced in speaker building who will be helping with the build.  

Cheers! 
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Jo bg View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jo bg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 April 2017 at 5:20pm
hi!
some thoughts in random order...
2 way 15 speaker are generally considered a compromise to be used without dedicated subs: they go low giving you some bass but at expense of midrange quality and directivity (bigger drivers start to  beam at lower frequencies). Usually when subs are used smaller drivers  like 12 or even 10 inches are used above, 15s are more used in four way systems to provide low mids/high bass/kick (75/100 to 150/250 hz usually). there are as always exceptions but if you are after quality rather than brute force i would not go with a 15 in a 3 way system.
be careful, on the 18sound site both the two way 15 speaker and the 12 inch version PDFs show the same identical frequency response and polar plots son one is wrong!
 
Wait for the veterans to chime in, but for 150/200 peeps and quality in mind reflex should be the easiest way.
a couple double 18s like the one you posted -wait for feedback on them- or similar, and a couple  2x12 + 1,4 comp with good drivers (go neodynium at least for the tops, yout back will be glad) should be not too difficult to build and sound lush and loud, once processed.
because you would need also a processor before the amp, with crossovers to split the various frequencies to the right speakers, eq, delay and level match the various bands and set limiters .
2 inputs six outputs at least, budget choice is the behringer dcx2496, then going up the price and quality ladder db mark , xilica and the top xta/lake-labgruppen to name a few.
 
And find someone to tune the system for you or learn how to do it. it makes the biggest difference, way more than component choice.
 
don't know about h&k but funktion one is famous for horn loaded system, if that's what you were renting be aware that it will sound different.
if you can give a listen to them and don't mind a more complicate build i would consider also 18 inch tapped horns (xoc1 th18 -what i use- or keystone 18 by art welter). theese are horns that sound good ang go low even in singles or small stacks, and are very efficent, it means that you could achieve similiar spl as reflex but with less amplifiers, drivers and power, as with reflex subs of the same size.
the th-18s sound controlled but deep and go very loud with low distortion and many musicians told me they sound very musical; still they can punch very very hard when it's time to dance.
 
horn loaded midtops are ridicoulously loud but have a more bumpy response and are more difficult to tame so i would stay reflex on that; if you count on expanding soon i would choose a 60 degree dispersion horn for the highs as they array better. if you plan on going on for a while with two tops then a 80/90 degree dispersion works better.
 
take your time and study a bit and listen or rent different systems if possible, and consider possible future upgrade path before setting on a project.
 


Edited by Jo bg - 28 April 2017 at 5:35pm
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hansmoleman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hansmoleman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2017 at 1:08pm
Hi Jo

Thanks for the feedback. Good food for thought. 

Sounds like 2 x 12 mid tops might be a better option then. We're after good clear definition in our kicks so assuming a smaller driver would be better for this. 

In terms of horn vs reflex. We thought a g-sub style double 18 cab would give us more flexibility to expand, do you think a horn type speaker for bass could sound better? 

Again, cheers for the advice!

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Speaker Sol View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speaker Sol Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2017 at 8:57pm
Some Reflex bins and Reflex Tops will be very flexible, relatively compact and work well for just about anything. 
Should also be easy to set up and run allowing you to get a decent sound without too much work.

Personally I would go for single 18" cabs, rather than doubles.

Why: 

1) Easier to move around, if you get stuck unloading/loading the van by yourself or you have a gig involving stares. 

2) Allows you do to smaller stuff, like a BBQ or a pub outdoor space using 1 18" bin and the mid/tops poll mounted, to slightly bigger stuff using 2x 18" bins and mid tops.... Just more flexible. 

Negative, is you need a bit more wood for your build and double the amount of corners, wheels, connectors. 


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Speaker Sol View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speaker Sol Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 2017 at 3:24pm
PMed, you will need 10 posts to view it. 

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hansmoleman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hansmoleman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 2017 at 4:58pm
cheers sol
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Jo bg View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jo bg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 2017 at 5:32pm
"In terms of horn vs reflex. We thought a g-sub style double 18 cab would give us more flexibility to expand, do you think a horn type speaker for bass could sound better? "
what looks better, green or yellow? Smile 

about flexibility traditional horns (scoops, front loaded, folded..) are less flexible than reflex, as they need big stacks to reach lower frequencies, by gaining a larger mouth.
with reflex cabs the response stays similar if you increase the number cabs, so even with a small rig  deployed you get full extension.
the tapped horns i suggested you to investigate (a concept brought up and made popular by Danley speakers) share this caracteristic with  reflex cabs, you get a good response down low even with few cabs.
but horns are more difficult to build and more difficult to adjust afterward, while you can easily build a reflex box and try different tunings by changing length and size of ports - or you could adapt it to a different driver later. 
a bonus for horns is efficiency ,you can get similar spl per cab size but with reflex you will need more drivers and power, but horns are efficient on a smaller bandwidth, so another bonus for reflex flexibility.

about what sounds better... go and listen. some like the impact of horns, some say reflex will always sound better, some like the distorted sound of overdriven drivers and chuffing ports so only you can decide.
of the music genres you mentioned be aware  that modern dub and electronic music (and hip hop) contain a lot of low frequencies often in the 30s, i am not saying you would need a subwoofer flat to 30hz but something flat to 35/40 would make you smile. 

one could say use horns for brute force  and reflex for quality and then you see that Rc1's wall of double 18 reflex boxes and ca18 is one of the most respected DnB systems while the all horns Danley cabs get praised almost everywhere for  their hi fi sound....







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