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stack processing

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gen0me View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gen0me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 April 2017 at 9:50pm
This box has like 135db please.
If you have doubts about reflections move mic further from cabs and check if measured differences in delay stays the same. Or ground option!
The shorter the noise the less acurate fft on bass.
Edit.
How about using only w bins or tms bass section? Not both?

Edited by gen0me - 12 April 2017 at 9:56pm
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sgarfa View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sgarfa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2017 at 9:26am
...it's idea..but iwuolud both tu incrase te push... anyway.. i'm looking to change the tms4 whit  tfl 760 or che wbis whit tse 118...Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sgarfa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 April 2017 at 8:48am
Good morning to everyone, due to an unexpected event whit my supermoto bike,I'm forced to rest, and i continue the discussion after a week ...
in the first image, i dont remamber the dramatic fall of the graph after 100hz...I think i have moved the microphone, anyway the second chart shows the 2x21 sub pairing with 2x18 2xtms4 low ..The system was very good ... i am very happy, very clean and muiscal sound, the subs then loaded with 18 sound 21nlw9000 at 35hz actual were already in full power..The 2 wbins have been aligned only with the distance .. the beautiful is this.. you can calibrate everything well then in the end ... someone adds, someone gets away .. the locale rumbling .. finally you do everything to the ear ... but at least now I have a starting setup .. this is our world
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sgarfa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 April 2017 at 8:56am
Anyway .. I put the photos of the plots ... to say .. ok, I did this way .. certainly there is something wrong .. i see for example the deeps  in the crossover area but the lines Phase overlapping, and more so I do not know what to do ...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 April 2017 at 12:25pm
You appear to have a misalignment at and above crossover region. I think your initial measurement delay may be off and there may not be much coherence hence gaps in plots. Can you turn on coherency plot?

Also bear in mind you should only be measuring one side not both.

As well get the TMS splayed. Fist width between front of boxes with rear touching is a good start. Make a cheese wedge of wood to hold them in position when strapped.

Edited by toastyghost - 23 April 2017 at 12:28pm
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sgarfa View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sgarfa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 April 2017 at 12:42pm
Yes.. i've tested only one stack.. like i've told in the firsts posts i've find the delay was finded with the autodealy.. whith the tms bass noise... after that i've bolocked the dalay..about coherency plot doesent make it
For the tms i usualy spalay it but in this time i preferred the stack stability
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toastyghost View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 April 2017 at 3:09pm
As I said already auto delay is not suitable for bass alignment. If you are crossing around 100hz use distance from mic to cabinet converted to ms, plus 5ms. If the phase trace is not flat around 100hz move the measurement delay up or down until it is and then leave it there.

You can turn on coherency plot in the top menus, it's vital to have it on really when you're new to this. Any thing under 50% should be ignored for sure but I personally keep blanking at 70 lowest.

Also make sure you have sufficient averaging set to compensate for the lack of data in LF. MTW windowing is fine but I would set it to at least 16 averages
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sgarfa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 April 2017 at 3:23pm
ok  toastyghost... the message before was on mobile, and i did realize it was you... ok in the next alignment i use your precious advice :)
premise, that all the simulations were few days before my posts here on the forum..
At the party for time issues I did not measure anything
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote shagnasty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 April 2017 at 4:21pm
SPLAY THE TMS!!!!!!!

you need a 100mm gap in the front with the backs touching for TMS boxes to sound anything like they should....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 April 2017 at 4:29pm
Now that I can see the traces more clearly on my laptop, it also looks like you do not have a HPF or LPF set on the cabinets when measuring?

Normally you would EQ the cabinets to 'flat', then set your highpass and lowpass filters so that the cabinets overlap at their -6dB points, you may need to leave a gap between the electronic crossover points for the acoustic crossover to end up right. Also complementary filter types / slopes to be decided based on the phase traces. Only then do you adjust delay settings to align.
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sgarfa View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sgarfa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 April 2017 at 7:21pm
mhh.. i dont understand.. the hpf and lpf and eventually others factory eq are before the measure, in particular cases i change the hpf/lpf between speakers to align the phase ... in my stack now is impossible to set flat, because the nature overlapping of frequencyes in particular wbin and tms4 ...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote bob4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 April 2017 at 9:59pm
sgarfa, for finding delays try APL TDA software, it allows you to easily & effectively visualize the time delay between your various boxes. 

I used it today to time-align align a threeway-system. I used the demo version, it has enough functionality for this.

Like toasty said,  first decide on crossover points and slopes for each box, then adjust your DSP accordingly.

Do a full range measurement in TDA, check the graph, adjust delays if necessary. Repeat with a few different mic positions (ear height/line between mid and hf horn). Do a few rounds for the subs with mic on the floor if necessary.

Then use smaart to fine tune delay/phase/level

if you have trouble:
use white noise + RTA to check for cancellation in crossover area for mids and highs
use pink noise + RTA for subs to do the same in the bass range

good luck!
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