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Mikkel View Drop Down
Young Croc
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Joined: 17 May 2013
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Points: 549 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mikkel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2017 at 5:56pm
Originally posted by zoombini zoombini wrote:

Thanks, this is all very helpful!

Originally posted by Mikkel Mikkel wrote:

I would also recommend you go for the fane 12-250 (two of them in seperate boxes; these boxes should just be simple closed boxes just big enough for a single speaker driver to fit in.).
What kind of sound does this give? I don't know unfortunately but the driver has had good reviews on here by people who have used them
Will I need a sub to go with this? Yes
Will I be able to use these as studio speakers as well as for taking out? Probably at low volume, but as djk has mentioned they will produce no bass so will need sub to reinforce
Since I have access to a workshop at the moment I would like to utilise the ability to build really nice cabinets! If I do need to make a sub to accompany these small speakers what would you suggest? You won't be able to make bass bins cheaper than midas is selling his (100£ for 4 double 15's is uber cheap), even with pallet delivery. But if you insist http://wizardaudio.hu/hasznos/hangfal%20tervek/bass/bass%20reflex/B&C%20Sub%2015%201.jpg is a basic reflex sub design. That website has other plans available if you wanna have a look.

Originally posted by Mikkel Mikkel wrote:

Amps look for c-mark mr2450/2650, audiohead, t-amp 2400, behringer ep2500/4000. Very cheap but ok amps. Can also put up an ad on here in the wanted section and see what people got. 
I found this:
I don't understand what bridge mode means? Bridge means when both channels of the amp are used in tandem to form one channel, effectively doubling the power. your better off finding an amp with two working channels so you can run more boxes off it. This is an excellent amplifier for the money and can run 2x double 15's per channel at a push (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Peavey-3400-Power-Amp-Amplifier-1700W-/182610897030?hash=item2a84752886:g:-h4AAOSw3gJZMVvA).

And to what extent does the change in model number mean? For instance, the amp I linked is not a mr2450 but a mr2350? the model numbers refer to the power output, f.ex. the 2450 puts out 1000w@4 ohm if i remember correctly. the 2350 will be the next model down, so i assume 800w@4 ohm.

Originally posted by Mikkel Mikkel wrote:

You will also need a crossover like behringer cx3400, but preferably if you can afford it, a digital xover like the dcx2496 or similar are much more versatile.
I found the former on ebay for £100 and the latter for around £200
However the guy on here said it was better to get second-hand old stuff, but I guess that's hard for me to find? Im afriad i don't fully understand. if your refering to amps yes some older amps give a better bang for your buck but with xovers its not quite the same. On another not don't buy the cx3400 2ndhand for 100£, you can get a brand new one over on thomann website for 90£!

Id rather find a plan for a good sub that requires a cheap driver that I can build myself than buy one. Since I have access to such a good workshop.
Any links to a plan that requires a cheap driver or 2 would be much appreciated!
I hear that drivers are tuned to certain sized cabinets so how would I know if the driver's guys have got on here would be appropriate? the drivers aren't tuned to the cabinet, the cabinet is tuned to the driver. Speaking in broad terms, as long as a driver is suitable for loading in that particular manner (reflex in this instance), you can load them into any cabinet. the tuning of the cabinet dictates the low frequency response. Unfortunately i don't know of any drivers below 100£ online that are any good, thats why i recommended you put up an advert in the wanted section and see if people have some decent 2ndhand ones for sale.

Since I am selling my tannoy cabinet for £140 I might have a bit more money! good stuff!! you'll need every penny!

Bests

Thanks
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zoombini View Drop Down
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Joined: 06 June 2017
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Points: 36 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zoombini Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2017 at 7:10pm
Thanks so much really helpful!

Please can you link me to those cabinets your talkign about!

Bests
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Mikkel View Drop Down
Young Croc
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Joined: 17 May 2013
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Points: 549 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mikkel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2017 at 7:17pm
its in my previous post but here it is again - http://forum.speakerplans.com/twin-15-inch-reflex-bins_topic97903.html - third post down.
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_djk_ View Drop Down
Old Croc
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Points: 6002 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote _djk_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2017 at 12:56am
Many amps have built-in crossovers for subs, so you may not need to buy a separate unit.

I have owned Crest and Behringer units, both were OK for what they did.

The NU4-6000 features a built-in 3-way Crossover, which is selectable as: Full-Range mode, where the output is sent unfiltered to your loudspeakers; LF mode, which sends the low-frequency content (<100 Hz) to passive subwoofers, or HF mode, where the high-frequency content (>100 Hz) is channeled to your full-range loudspeakers.

These are available (new) in the USA on ebay as low as $299, and one amp can run both tops and subs with the built-in crossover.

I have set-up systems with a 150W powered mixer and a ($100 used ) Crest CPX amp/crossover that gave 900W (bridged) for a single 18 sub.

I have a friend that I sold five of the Fane TC drivers for his home theater, they sound pretty good (although they ran about $85 each). They have OK bass in a large vented box (3 cu ft or so). He also uses a high x-max quad 12 sub below 80hz (cat is optional).





The Qts on the cheap drivers is too high to use in any kind of vented box, and even though the Fane will have some bass in a box the size of your Cheviot box, it won't be able to handle more than about 50W (even though it's a 250W driver), due to x-max limitations.

I used to use a lot of inexpensive full-range drivers, and like them (as long as I am willing to live with their limitations).


Edited by _djk_ - 09 June 2017 at 12:58am
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_djk_ View Drop Down
Old Croc
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Joined: 23 November 2004
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Points: 6002 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote _djk_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2017 at 1:10am
I bought a case of 24 these a while back at $3.99 each, $4.99 for singles.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PANASONIC-ALT-4-FIT-BOSE-901-101-151-802-402-fullrange-/390293772369?hash=item5adf525851:g:8M8AAMXQrNtRze9E

A line of eight will have about the same output as a 12, and at a cost of less than $40 (plus ship and VAT).
djk
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zoombini View Drop Down
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Points: 36 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zoombini Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2017 at 8:50pm
Are there any other amps with built in crossovers to look out for?
Does the number of speakers they can power depend on outputs?
For example, how many can this power, and what is the total possible AES worth of speakers for each channel?:

I dont understand this: 

The Qts on the cheap drivers is too high to use in any kind of vented box, and even though the Fane will have some bass in a box the size of your Cheviot box, it won't be able to handle more than about 50W (even though it's a 250W driver), due to x-max limitations.



BEsts
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_djk_ View Drop Down
Old Croc
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Joined: 23 November 2004
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Points: 6002 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote _djk_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2017 at 9:12pm
"I dont understand this: "

It means the cheap drivers are cheap, you get what you pay for, and the motor/magnet structure is too small to do the job.

The CPX 1500 is a good amp, I've owned a couple. You could drive a pair of 15's per channel, or an 18 in bridge mode to 1KW. It has a built in crossover at 150hz, and is designed for what you're trying to do. CPX series go up to 3800W, although I biggest i have owned was the CPX 2600.

The quad 12 sub shown above is driven by a 600W (bridged) Crest CKS400 that I got for about $150.

I own about 70 PA amps, mostly Crest, Crown, and a few QSC.

Too bad you live on the wrong side of the pond, I could fix you up with what you need.
djk
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zoombini View Drop Down
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Points: 36 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zoombini Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2017 at 9:23pm
Thanks, Might need to head over their! 

Is that CPX 1500 an amp and a crossover?
Would it be able to power two 12" fane (8 Ohms 500 w) and two 8" + 1 tweeter (8 Ohms 125 w +8Ohms 25w)
I dont think so since there is not enough whattage

Bests
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_djk_ View Drop Down
Old Croc
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Joined: 23 November 2004
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Points: 6002 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote _djk_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2017 at 9:32pm
"Is that CPX 1500 an amp and a crossover?"

Yes, 500W/4Ω x2 and a 150hz crossover.

"Would it be able to power two 12" fane (8 Ohms 500 w) and two 8" + 1 tweeter (8 Ohms 125 w +8Ohms 25w)"

Sure, in mono.

"I dont think so since there is not enough whattage"

It's a 1500W amp. A 15,000W amp in theory would play twice as loud, but in reality won't due to power compression and the loss of sensitivity in your ears above 110dB or so.
djk
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bob4 View Drop Down
Old Croc
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Points: 1843 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bob4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 June 2017 at 9:12am
Originally posted by zoombini zoombini wrote:

Would it be able to power two 12" fane (8 Ohms 500 w) and two 8" + 1 tweeter (8 Ohms 125 w +8Ohms 25w)
I dont think so since there is not enough whattage

the first 256 Watts provide 21 dB of acoustic gain. In theory you would lose 3 dB max output. 

putting your two 12" subs in parallel on one channel (4 ohm), the amp can provide 500 W, again just 3 dB less than the power dissipation spec of your loudspeakers (500 + 500 = 1000 W). 

it will be fine for getting started. You can always later add a second amp to spank your bass cabs a bit harder (although I doubt that will make much of a difference...)
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