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Stasys 3 MK2 VS Porn Horn V2 |
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jethrocker 
Old Croc 
Joined: 07 June 2006 Location: Chiapas, Mexico Status: Offline Points: 1942 |
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 Posted: 12 February 2008 at 6:49am |
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sh*t, best we all give up then....:( |
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Rog
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Rogers Archive Posts Joined: 23 March 2010 Status: Offline Points: 2166 |
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Posted: 12 February 2008 at 4:10am |
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Adam, here we go again.
The only reason the porn horn has a better plot than the rest in the same time is that it starts off with a very flat frequency response. As you have found even if you spend 3 days trying to get a flat response from the bokes you will not.
This is how it works. The DIY sector or Chinese company that just looks at another design from a picture and then builds something that losely looks like it, will and can never have the control over parts that I can. I have a complete say in how the glue is made and where it is applied when designing the woofers and compression drivers. I even have control of where and from what materials the capacitors are made from in the crossovers and how the copper or alu is made for coils and inductors. I have control of the cabinet shape and a full time team of 6 men and CNC just to build prototypes. If some who has all this at there disposal can't come up with a design that has a pretty flat response then they should not be designing at all.
As a DIYer you are at the mercy of what ever you can find. I'm so surprised that anyone can take a compression driver from one company and mate it with a horn from somewhere else and then connect that to a premade crossover and use a woofer from another company and put it into a box that has had only 10 mins spent on its design by someone with little knowledge. Its a million to 1 chance that all those parts will combine to make anything useable, let alone have a flat response. Only when you have control of ever part of the speaker and its design can you hope to get good results. Some Chinese companys do have control over all the materials and parts that make up a speaker system, but the problems is that they don't know where or what to control to make anything worth having. Industy is too new for China and there are a people who need to be led. So finding anyone with any clue of how to design anything is remote.
So, if it was easy to get a flat plot in a short time for the porn horn its just down to the fact that all its parts work together and were designed to provide a good response with the mimimum of effort. I thought it took a long time to get a good plot from the porn horn and if the beyma HF driver was used I think anyone could have made a flat response in under 5 mins.
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toastyghost
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Joined: 09 January 2007 Location: Manchester Status: Offline Points: 10894 |
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Posted: 11 February 2008 at 4:57pm |
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It seems you managed to unscrew the lightbulbs without touching them, that's a pretty good trick if I ever saw one  |
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adambomb
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Joined: 10 April 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3215 |
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Posted: 11 February 2008 at 3:45pm |
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Rog.. just found this.. you have taken this the wrong way.
I never said you used any tricks!!!
All I said was you mut have used the preset for the porn, which would have had a bit of time spent on it.. more than we spent on the other cabs atleast, which may have made the test slightly unfair.
Over all tho, even taking this into account the porn walked it.
Then I said I managed to get a better plot out of the cabs I have with more playing around (a couple of hours tweaking delays / eq etc)... still nothing special compared to the porn I might add.
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mykey
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Joined: 18 August 2005 Location: UK/Indonesia Status: Offline Points: 9680 |
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Posted: 10 February 2008 at 1:22pm |
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I hope this is not what your on about Rog????
I wasn't having a dig, i'm impressed, thats whay i said don't bother with a controller
why bother with a flat line like that
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Disco Stu
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Joined: 03 March 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 2487 |
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Posted: 10 February 2008 at 1:21pm |
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I know you rigged the walls with a massive 8th order bandpass with 52 18"ers
In all seriousness I see two schools of design afoot, 1) The old skool - which consisted of primarily getting the speaker right as much as possible so that no corrective EQ was required for a good sound - partially due to the fact that corrective EQ used to be prohibitively expensive. A lot of the old EV designs were spot on in this way, but things have moved on. 2) The newer skool - which seems to consist of partially designed/copied/badly designed cabs with hordes of corrective EQ to compensate for the lack of time and effort put in at the design stage While I believe Rog uses EQ to perfect the system you can tell by his designs and his component choices that his systems are designed with the older skool method firmly in mind The fact that you all commented on how loud and clear the Porn horn V2 was at that shootout just confirms this. Dont forget that all of the other mid tops at that shootout were not phase plugged so if nothing else, if there was not a significant amount of R&D in the Porn then it would have exhibited the same mid range droop which is almost impossible to correct with EQ as all the others. Also dont forget that with every band of EQ you use it also causes phase shift in other bands. This explains the near perfect waterfall/impulse/GD/phase plots of the Porn. Unfortunately the people who design via skool 2) appear to either not realise or do not care to notice this but its also part of the reason why (and you all commented on this) that the Porn blew away everything else at the shootout. Stu Edited by Disco Stu - 10 February 2008 at 1:37pm |
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All you need to know is:
Sensitivity + Power Handling - Power Compression = Max Output My acts: www.myspace.com/thebowiexperience www.myspace.com/scheisseelektronisches |
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Rog
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Rogers Archive Posts Joined: 23 March 2010 Status: Offline Points: 2166 |
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Posted: 10 February 2008 at 11:37am |
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Mikey, you need to read a few posts up mate, because adam just said that after I left he played around with the settings with his own gear and got a much better response.
So either he's better at tricks than me or I didn't play any. This is why shootouts are a waste of time. You're much better of getting a load of people around kit they know how to set up well and putting on some good tunes whilst having a beer and a chat about it. Then compare one system or bit of kit to another. Its so unlikely that a few people at the event will understand how to get the best out of all the kit at the shootout and that can mean that some really misunderstood bit of kit might get rejected because no one either knows or can be bothered to get the best from it. That makes the whole reasoning behind a shootout pointless.
And if you could kindly explane what tricks I played with the Stasys X at PLASA that would be nice. Edited by Rog Mogale - 10 February 2008 at 11:39am |
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adambomb
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Joined: 10 April 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3215 |
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Posted: 30 January 2008 at 10:47pm |
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mykey
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Joined: 18 August 2005 Location: UK/Indonesia Status: Offline Points: 9680 |
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Posted: 30 January 2008 at 12:12pm |
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gay porn? I'll get me coat
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adambomb
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Posted: 30 January 2008 at 11:56am |
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Exactly... the ALL need delay / EQ to sound right... PORN INCLUDED MYKEY
I just said that we should plot Xtros from greater distances as it would be a better reprisentation of the real use.. and that most manufacturers have probably designed there cabs to plot well at 1m... with less regard to larger distances.. or perhaps tweaked EQ + delay settings to plot well at 1m.
But me, like Tom Danley thinks this is the wrong way of doing it (nobody in there right mind stands 1m infront of a horn loaded mid / top at full chat).
Maybe I should't have used Rog as an example.. my bad.. anyway.. it's fun to promote lively debate on here. Edited by adambomb - 30 January 2008 at 11:58am |
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mykey
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Joined: 18 August 2005 Location: UK/Indonesia Status: Offline Points: 9680 |
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Posted: 30 January 2008 at 11:56am |
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Don't waste your money on a controller, just buy the porn horn and chuck it straight on an amp
Edited by mykey - 30 January 2008 at 12:10pm |
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Hugo Biermann
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Joined: 05 February 2005 Location: South Africa Status: Offline Points: 809 |
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Posted: 30 January 2008 at 11:49am |
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Cant see any pro cab ever being perfect in FQ response at 1m or 30m's without some f**king around with controllers.
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www.aggressiveaudio.co.za
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Rog Mogale wrote: