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bin juice24 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 13 September 2020 at 8:51pm
Playing some gong earlier and noticed some backing vocals missing. Where could they be? It’s an iPad into a crap amp into some full range speakers. The sound is there but faint and with reverb. I’ve tried changing the Jack and checked it’s switched to mono......
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Conanski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 September 2020 at 9:13pm
Unbalanced stereo signal into a balanced mono input perhaps?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BJtheDJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 September 2020 at 9:58pm
Out of phase maybe??

Or possibly only one channel coming through, you wouldn't notice in mono if half of the stereo image was missing


Edited by BJtheDJ - 13 September 2020 at 10:00pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote madboffin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 September 2020 at 11:31pm
I agree with the other two - this effect is usually caused by one channel being out of phase (polarity) with the other.

Everything panned to the centre gets cancelled out and the reverb sounds stronger than the vocal. Or to put it another way, you are listening to the *difference* between the two channels.

Stereo jack into balanced mono input, per Conanski's suggestion, is a common cause of this.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Conanski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 September 2020 at 12:14am
To clarify, this type of cable which splits the signal to 2 separate inputs must be used to connect an iPad or similar to the mono inputs of a mixer or amp.  If you just connect that stereo signal to a single input everything common on both channels gets cancelled(because that is what a balanced mono input is designed to do) and you're left with nothing but the out of phase stereo effects.




Edited by Conanski - 14 September 2020 at 12:17am
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bin juice24 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bin juice24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 September 2020 at 7:15am
Thank you very much guys. 
I’m still confused but have to go to work now.
More questions later....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatfreddiescat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 September 2020 at 8:30am
Maybe this will help, if plugged into a balanced / differential input on the amp it will expect the 'source (ipad) to send a signal on pin 2 (xlr) or tip (stereo jack plug) signal '+' (positive polarity). Pin 3 (xlr) or ring (jack) will be. expected to be signal '-' (negative polarity). The amp balanced receiver then inverts the negative signal and adds them both together, by doing so any noise picked up on the cable will mostly be cancelled out, in your case it combining both left and right signals but inverting one of them first so cancelling anything common to both the left and right channels.

As ever there is more to it when you dig deeper ( differential / balanced) this paper explains it well: 

interconnection of balanced and unbalanced equipment - John H. Brandt

Phone being a pita to copy actual link.

Also:


PS as it happens, my last gig before lockdown was running sound for an event with Steve playing a DJ set.


Edited by fatfreddiescat - 14 September 2020 at 8:49am
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bin juice24 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bin juice24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 September 2020 at 1:56pm
My last shroom trip was with freewheelin franklin.

Okay, so in my Luddite mind, a balanced cable has a third wire insulating the other two from interference?

My IPad sends out a stereo ( if recorded that way) signal. This is going into a diddy jack to female jack (mono) that I presume is unbalanced, then to an xlr mono that is balanced, feeding the amp, set to mono.

And I don’t want to be doing this.

I require a diddy jack to stereo jack lead, even if amp is in mono?

I assume that there’s a way of drawing diagrams for audio stuff, as there is electronics etc. Could someone point in the right direction so that I could at least have a little comprehension of the correct terminology and wot not.

Thanks again!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BJtheDJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 September 2020 at 4:18pm
OK.  The TV will have a headphone jack so why not use that ??

Does your amp have 1/4 inch jack inputs as well XLR inputs ??

So mini stereo jack to two 1/4 inch mono jacks.  If that's not immediately available use a mini stereo jack to to mini mono jack and then use mini to 1/4 inch adaptors.

Advisable to turn both the TV and PPX volumes all of the way down before trying it, and then raising the volume of each alternately.

Edited by BJtheDJ - 14 September 2020 at 4:31pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BJtheDJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 September 2020 at 4:28pm
Originally posted by Conanski Conanski wrote:

To clarify, this type of cable which splits the signal to 2 separate inputs must be used to connect an iPad or similar to the mono inputs of a mixer or amp.  If you just connect that stereo signal to a single input everything common on both channels gets cancelled(because that is what a balanced mono input is designed to do) and you're left with nothing but the out of phase stereo effects.


Sorry my friend, but (with the greatest of respect and not trying to insult you) you're just plain wrong there, the volume would increase is all.

What you're suggesting will happen will only occur if one of the two stereo channels is connected out of phase - and in that case everything panned to dead centre will be cancelled; if two positive peaks are added together the current will increase.

If what you said is true then batteries could not be connected in parallel.



Edited by BJtheDJ - 14 September 2020 at 4:28pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatfreddiescat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 September 2020 at 4:42pm
Originally posted by bin juice24 bin juice24 wrote:

My last shroom trip was with freewheelin franklin.

Okay, so in my Luddite mind, a balanced cable has a third wire insulating the other two from interference?

My IPad sends out a stereo ( if recorded that way) signal. This is going into a diddy jack to female jack (mono) that I presume is unbalanced, then to an xlr mono that is balanced, feeding the amp, set to mono.

And I don’t want to be doing this.

I require a diddy jack to stereo jack lead, even if amp is in mono?

I assume that there’s a way of drawing diagrams for audio stuff, as there is electronics etc. Could someone point in the right direction so that I could at least have a little comprehension of the correct terminology and wot not.

Thanks again!




LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bin juice24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 September 2020 at 5:13pm
Originally posted by BJtheDJ BJtheDJ wrote:

OK.  The TV will have a headphone jack so why not use that ??

Does your amp have 1/4 inch jack inputs as well XLR inputs ??

So mini stereo jack to two 1/4 inch mono jacks.  If that's not immediately available use a mini stereo jack to to mini mono jack and then use mini to 1/4 inch adaptors.

Advisable to turn both the TV and PPX volumes all of the way down before trying it, and then raising the volume of each alternately.

Hi, the telly is a long way from where I’m playing the music. Big garden.
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