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BJtheDJ View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BJtheDJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 September 2020 at 8:11pm
Originally posted by bin juice24 bin juice24 wrote:

Originally posted by BJtheDJ BJtheDJ wrote:

OK.  The TV will have a headphone jack so why not use that ??

Does your amp have 1/4 inch jack inputs as well XLR inputs ??

So mini stereo jack to two 1/4 inch mono jacks.  If that's not immediately available use a mini stereo jack to to mini mono jack and then use mini to 1/4 inch adaptors.

Advisable to turn both the TV and PPX volumes all of the way down before trying it, and then raising the volume of each alternately.

Hi, the telly is a long way from where I’m playing the music. Big garden.


Please accept my apologies, the first paragraph actually referrred to another thread and was completely out of place in this thread.

However the rest of the post is still valid, take the headphone output from your iPad and use a splitter as illustrated by Conanski in https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=105701&PID=1046793&title=steve-hillage#1046793 to feed the signal into the jack sockets (if any) on your amp.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Conanski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 September 2020 at 1:25am
Originally posted by BJtheDJ BJtheDJ wrote:

Sorry my friend, but (with the greatest of respect and not trying to insult you) you're just plain wrong there, 

Go lookup how a balanced circuits work and then tell me how I'm wrong.







Edited by Conanski - 15 September 2020 at 1:26am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BJtheDJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 September 2020 at 2:18pm
Originally posted by Conanski Conanski wrote:

Originally posted by BJtheDJ BJtheDJ wrote:

Sorry my friend, but (with the greatest of respect and not trying to insult you) you're just plain wrong there, 

Go lookup how a balanced circuits work and then tell me how I'm wrong.



OK.  I don't have to look it up.  You're wrong.

What you illustrate above is a balanced circuit (balanced circuits are always mono), and completely different to the circuit in question.

The OP has a stereo signal composed of two channels of unbalanced audio.

A balanced signal and a stereo signal are two completely different things, although you can have stereo balanced signals they'd need at least 5 connections (a pair of balanced connections for each channel and a common ground connection) to work properly - not the three that are in question here.

A balanced signal is a mono signal that has two components in anti-phase which are summed with each other, because of that any noise picked up is identical in both sides of the circuit and then cancels itself in the summing amplifier or the transformer (whichever is in use) of the input.

An unbalanced signal has a signal wire and a ground wire as illustrated by you in the picture that you posted in https://forum.speakerplans.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=105701&PID=1046793&title=steve-hillage#1046793 where it can be clearly seen that that the two jacks are not not balanced.

Even if both of those were inserted into the same channel of an amplifier then they would still be in phase and would not cancel but would instead be summed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Conanski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 September 2020 at 3:31pm
Originally posted by BJtheDJ BJtheDJ wrote:

Even if both of those were inserted into the same channel of an amplifier then they would still be in phase and would not cancel but would instead be summed. 

You need to go try this for yourself.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatfreddiescat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 September 2020 at 4:01pm
Originally posted by BJtheDJ BJtheDJ wrote:

Originally posted by Conanski Conanski wrote:

Originally posted by BJtheDJ BJtheDJ wrote:

Sorry my friend, but (with the greatest of respect and not trying to insult you) you're just plain wrong there, 

Go lookup how a balanced circuits work and then tell me how I'm wrong.


 

A balanced signal is a mono signal that has two components in anti-phase which are summed with each other, because of that any noise picked up is identical in both sides of the circuit and then cancels itself in the summing amplifier or the transformer (whichever is in use) of the input.


What you are referring to is a differential output.
 




Edited by fatfreddiescat - 15 September 2020 at 4:02pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BJtheDJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 September 2020 at 7:31pm
Originally posted by Conanski Conanski wrote:

Originally posted by BJtheDJ BJtheDJ wrote:

Even if both of those were inserted into the same channel of an amplifier then they would still be in phase and would not cancel but would instead be summed. 

You need to go try this for yourself.


So, ignore everything else and pick out one small thing ???  Nice snipping, not. LOL

Back in the day way back to the 60s I did, again in the 70s and the 80s and it's been the same every time; my stuff since then (apart from plugging customers' 'phones and iPods into the mixer) has been balanced line.

I speak from experience.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BJtheDJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 September 2020 at 7:51pm
Originally posted by bin juice24 bin juice24 wrote:

<snip>
My IPad sends out a stereo ( if recorded that way) signal. This is going into a diddy jack to female jack (mono) that I presume is unbalanced, then to an xlr mono that is balanced, feeding the amp, set to mono.<snip>
Thanks again!


This adapter is most likely the cause of your problem. 

FatFreddiesCat has posted a possible solution.

The easiest solution would be to take the to positive leads and solder the together to pin 2 of the XLR, then take the one of the ground leads and solder that to pins 1 and 3.  Solderer's choice what to do with the other ground lead since bothe will be connected together at the iPad end of the cable - either snip or solder both together, which would give the possibility of a ground loop causing hum.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatfreddiescat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 September 2020 at 9:21pm
As still a little unclear with regards the OP's cabling, the cable Conanski has posted is correct for an amp with jack inputs whether or not the inputs are differential and balanced or not. If using xlr in then signal should appear on pin2 or pin3 ( pin2 is more common)of the xlr only, other pin linked to pin1 on xlr. One xlr for left and another for right channels not left and right connected to a single xlr.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote alglw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 September 2020 at 9:33pm
This is a very common problem as the 3.5mm jack stereo ( left,right,and ground.) Gets wired to a single xlr by some adaptors ( or ‘bright spark without a clue’ ) wired as left to +,right to-,and ground to ground.
The balanced input does its job and subtracts - from + and all that’s remains of the music is reverb and little or no bass and no lead vocals.
The information being given is to help sort the problem. I gave up replying a long time ago as it seems the people asking questions didn’t like being told they were wrong.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bin juice24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 September 2020 at 8:34am
Originally posted by alglw alglw wrote:

This is a very common problem as the 3.5mm jack stereo ( left,right,and ground.) Gets wired to a single xlr by some adaptors ( or ‘bright spark without a clue’ ) wired as left to +,right to-,and ground to ground.
The balanced input does its job and subtracts - from + and all that’s remains of the music is reverb and little or no bass and no lead vocals.
The information being given is to help sort the problem. I gave up replying a long time ago as it seems the people asking questions didn’t like being told they were wrong.

Thanks for your input. I’ve just received a stereo y cable and will try that later.

I really don’t mind being told I’m wrong. Surely that’s the whole point of asking why something isn’t working?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatfreddiescat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 September 2020 at 9:21am
Just to add re stereo jack to two XLR's cable or any unbalanced to balanced input, an improvement in CMMR may be had by using two core plus screen cable and shorting pin1 to pin3 at the source end of the cable instead of at the XLR end, this is because any noise induced on the signal line connected to pin2 on the XLR (or stereo jack etc)  may to a degree be present on the line to pin3. 
Not much fun trying to make one of these up with a 3.5mm jack plug though.

Using the circuit as pictured in one of my previous posts it is possible to make a balanced line adaptor for your phone / ipad/ laptop etc with 2 resistors and a capacitor. This is due to the fact that a balanced line connection is two impedance matched lines, only one of which needs to carry your signal, by being impedance matched any interference appearing on one line will appear on the other, in phase and in equal level, the receiving end will then invert one and add the two together therefore cancelling the interference (never 100%). You will need measure the output impedance of your unbalance device to do this and the more accurate you are the better the CMMR performance will be.

Headphone outputs should be well suited to this as have a low source impedance, ideal as a cheap method for long runs in fixed installs.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarcoAudio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 September 2020 at 1:11pm
I don't know if I understand the original posters needs correctly but I plug external sources like phones etc into the microphone line into mixer using a 3.5 adapter with a long lead round the then can adjust volume, bass and treble with the mixer's microphone controls. Get good results that way.
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