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Subwoofer suggestion for L`acoustic 108p

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0krizia View Drop Down
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    Posted: 15 February 2016 at 4:04pm
Hello.
 
Last november i invested in an L`acoustic 108p speaker,
this was a huge upgrade in my hobby and my 14 year old dream to own a speaker of this brand came true! 
anyways.... i noticed that this speaker is a speaker in its own league, i have never heard anything like it, the sound is so clear and detailed that it almost feels unnatural, but i have one problem. i can clearly notice that my subwoofer is mudding up the entire low end. If i set the crossover on the subwoofer at 80-100 hz, all the details in the drum and the lower  harmonics from upper frequencies is just mended into a muddy chaos. If i have the crossover at 50-60 hz it sound amazing but then i cant push the system so much since i like some extra power below 100hz and a 8" top speaker is not made for moving to much air below 80 hz.

so my question is: do any of you have a recomandation for a subwoofer driver that can match up to the L`acoustic 108p? i dont want to go bigger than 15 inch and my goal is to get a -3db at about 30 hz. 

the subwoofer i have now is BMS 12n630 in a 52L box with a 40hz tuning.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacethebase Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2016 at 4:16pm
Get a DV-Sub they rock!
www.wedding-production.co.uk

www.stage2sound.com
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0krizia View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 0krizia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2016 at 4:46pm
93 kg is to much weight and i cant buy their subwoofers without buying their amps witch make it reeeealy expensive.

L`acoustics company do not sell their passive speakers without L`acoustic amplifiers since their branding in the market it "exceptional sound quality" and they dont want bad sound equipment to mess up their sound.

i thinking more about buying a subwoofer driver i can build a Box to, buying new is way to expensive.


Edited by 0krizia - 15 February 2016 at 4:48pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote krazyneil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2016 at 5:57pm
i think that a cubo 15 or tham 15 would meet you 40hzneeds withouth being too big,
 
 
i think a 15"reflex sub would need to be fairly big to get near 40hz
GOD TOLD ME TO DO IT !!!!!
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0krizia View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 0krizia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2016 at 6:34pm
it does not have to be much louder than 120DB so i can trade some SPL for some better lows if that would help
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote corell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2016 at 10:13pm
Playing down to 30Hz -3db with a 12" or 15" and not sounding muddy wont be easy. The TSP which make chassis play low in vented enclosures are more or less the same that make them sound "slow". The ones that matter are : qts, Vas, fs and xmax to determine max spl.
You are looking for a qts of about 0,34-0,4 , a fs around 30Hz and as high xmax as you find. the only parameter you have a choice about really is the Vas. With a fixed fs, the Vas just depends on the mass of the cone (mms). A chassis with a high Vas is more likely to suit your needs, due to having a lighter cone, but will require a bigger cab...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 0krizia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 February 2016 at 5:05pm
I though size didnt matter above 10" for bass/sub reproduction down to 30 hz ish.

what is TSP ?

what about 35hz - 3db ? 
I realy dont want a big box since im moving my sound equipment alot from place to place.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMorison Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 February 2016 at 1:05pm
Originally posted by 0krizia 0krizia wrote:

I though size didnt matter above 10" for bass/sub reproduction down to 30 hz ish.

what is TSP ?
 
what about 35hz - 3db ? 
I realy dont want a big box since im moving my sound equipment alot from place to place.
 
TSP = Theile-Small Parameters - the characteristics that describe a woofer's behaviour in the box and allow it to be modelled.
 
Generally, the deeper you try and stretch a driver's response (by using a larger box and tuning it lower) the higher the "Group Delay" of the frequencies around the tuning frequency, hence sounding slower/muddier.
 
There is no hard & fast rule relating driver size to LF limit, because you also have to take into account other factors like how loud it needs to get and how big a space you need to fill with sound - a 6" hi-fi driver might get into the low 30's if you only need to play to 90dB max in a small room, but be completely useless if you try to get 110dB out of it in a large hall.
 
It is possible to get tighter response at the same time as going deeper but this relies on finding a driver that can easily be tuned well below the target low frequency limit while still staying reasonably flat down to that limit, which normally corresponds to a bigger driver. Not least because the lower you tune it the less control of excursion you have, so the higher the chance of distortion which further muddies up the sound. Using a larger driver that can shove more air for less excursion mitigates this to an extent.
 
HTH,
David.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarjanM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 February 2016 at 1:21pm
Whats wrong with your subwoofer?
You have a better subwoofers then your precious lacoustics tops.
I think you need to carefully time align the system and fine tune the dsp processing for the entire system.
Not change the subs.
Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
www.mm-acoustics.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 0krizia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 February 2016 at 4:25pm

i find it hard to belive that a 300$ subdriver is better than a 4000$ 8" speaker.

It might be the enclosure that is not good. i didnt follow the recommendation by BMS because i wanted more output from the driver so i built a bigger box and with higher tuning. Might be posible to get better result with another box but atleast now, it does not sound good at all compared to my top speaker.
if the top and the sub are stacked together do you think it has any time delay ? How would a DSP help me out? i have never used one. 

i also could not get more than 80DB out of the sub at 4m away with 700W and low cut at 40hz last time i used it. It was a 10X10m room with 5m under the roof ish. i was hoping i could get more out of it.
(mesured with "A" weight in SPLnfft app) 


Edited by 0krizia - 17 February 2016 at 4:32pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote csg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 February 2016 at 5:32pm
The components in your 4000$ cost L acoustics an awful lot less than 4000$...possibly less than 300$

Im not saying either component is bad, i generally find L acoustics kit very well voiced, however you do have a very good and capable sub driver there and with a box that brings the best from it, coupled with sensible eq and processing you should be able to get extremely good results.
“The fact is this is about identifying what we do best and finding more ways of doing less of it better”
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0krizia View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 0krizia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 February 2016 at 6:23pm
Thank you for this information David.

So if i wanted a clean sound down to say 35hz, i should tune it lower than 35hz in order to have less group delay. Ill lose alot of output in that way tho. guess thats where bigger driver comes in (-.-)
i was hoping i could get away with a small sub. 

But i dont think group delay is the problem when the muddy sound is not only below 60hz but in the whole spectrum the sub is capable of playing in.



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