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Super Bass Horn V.02 by Startec (Quad Acoustics-F)
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toastyghost View Drop Down
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Joined: 09 January 2007
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Points: 10894 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 November 2021 at 11:29pm
Originally posted by sushi sushi wrote:


I think 4 reflex cabs loaded with the 18LW2600 (well processed and driven by proper amps) would probably give enough deep and loud sub bass to shake belly buttons 10mt away outdoor, with high spl focused on the dancefloor, without being heard miles away (unlike most folded horns)


Oh here we go. Good advice followed by oft-repeated bullshit. Throw does not exist.
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Points: 22 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Toss Out Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 November 2021 at 10:00am
ok thank you guys sorry again for off topic..i will doc..
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Points: 176 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote re-production Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 November 2021 at 9:41pm
Did you manage to get any measurements of the siniai paraflex? 
I'd be pretty interested in seeing the group delay specifically.
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Points: 22 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Toss Out Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 November 2021 at 9:53pm
i think i ll go with l18p300 and wsx...i saw specs comparing 18lw2600 and rcf and this is better..i was wrong with all
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sushi View Drop Down
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Points: 90 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sushi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 December 2021 at 12:10pm
Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

Originally posted by sushi sushi wrote:


I think 4 reflex cabs loaded with the 18LW2600 (well processed and driven by proper amps) would probably give enough deep and loud sub bass to shake belly buttons 10mt away outdoor, with high spl focused on the dancefloor, without being heard miles away (unlike most folded horns)


Oh here we go. Good advice followed by oft-repeated bullshit. Throw does not exist.


Did i say "throw"?
We were not talking about artillery, were we?
What i was talking about is the significant combination of high spl and strong directivity for which horns are generally capable of delivering percievably louder sound at a distance, rather than reflex cabs.
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This is simply incorrect.

Stack 1

Twin 18” reflex subs
8 cabs
4.8M x1.2M radiating area
150dB SPL at 1M

Stack 2
Single 18” front loaded horns
8 cabs
4.8M x 1.2M radiating area
150dB SPL at 1M

Both stacks will offer 132dB at 8M and 120dB at 32M

How do horns out “throw “ the reflex cabs exactly?
“The fact is this is about identifying what we do best and finding more ways of doing less of it better”
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Points: 7423 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cravings Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 December 2021 at 3:05pm
Trying to link to James hippersons aes paper from this year but phone browser not playing ball


Edited by cravings - 07 December 2021 at 3:06pm
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toastyghost View Drop Down
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Points: 10894 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 December 2021 at 8:35pm
Originally posted by cravings cravings wrote:

Trying to link to James hippersons aes paper from this year but phone browser not playing ball


I also literally submitted 40,000 words, tons of real measurements on scale models and sixty BEM studies on this last week for a master’s degree. It isn’t exactly the same, but until the product of complex wavenumber and equivalent surface radiation impedance are approaching 10, the coverage angles are more or less the same in the pass band of interest.

An asymmetrical horn profile does create some aberrations - again, outside of the region you’d use the sub in - but these are caused by diffraction and also apply to a largely asymmetrical ported box too.
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Points: 90 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sushi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 December 2021 at 2:28pm
Originally posted by cravings cravings wrote:

Trying to link to James hippersons aes paper from this year but phone browser not playing ball

Thanks for the input, I'm looking for it and reading it asap. Honestly i've been trying to have some good reading on acoustics/speakerdesign/audio in general, so any input is welcome!
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Points: 1791 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bob4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 December 2021 at 7:40am
Originally posted by citizensc citizensc wrote:

For anyone that owns or loves the SBH, maybe stop reading here... your feelings may be hurt

The more I have learned about FLH design, the more I have come to hate this design. Its just sub optimal, it isn't that suppressing, after all it it is a design from the 90s, adapted to what what was considered a modern driver in 2008, in 2021 we have so many great drivers and design tools that designing something better than this isn't very hard. 

Here are a couple of real life measurements of the SBH in groups of 4, as you can see, it is trash below 50hz. I ran an akabak 3 sim of the SBH in groups of 4 and compared it to 4 x 18 inch reflex and 4 x 15 inch BG horn, both killed it below 50 hz. 




From a real life subjective (ears), objective (measurement) and theoretical (BEM sim) point of view this design does not score well IMO.

I have been planning on designing a 18 inch and 21 inch FLH and posting it here but I have been very busy as of late. I am finishing my masters and moving 3500km to take a new job before the end of the year but I may find time when I settle down in the new year. 

Funnily enough, there still seem to be heaps of free party types building enthusiastically anything from 4-16 cabinet sized stacks of sbh's, and circle-jerking about this "amazing bass horn" on fb LOLConfusedOuchDead


Edited by bob4 - 25 December 2021 at 7:41am
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Points: 909 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sypa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 December 2021 at 9:23am
[/QUOTE]

Funnily enough, there still seem to be heaps of free party types building enthusiastically anything from 4-16 cabinet sized stacks of sbh's, and circle-jerking about this "amazing bass horn" on fb LOLConfusedOuchDead
[/QUOTE]

Tbh was on my first teknival this yearBig smile and the 12 sbh stack sounded the best overrall in my opinion,but competition was mostly huge walls of bph maybe some punishers here and there!?
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Points: 1373 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonB67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 December 2021 at 10:42am
Good job citizensc. Nice to see actual measurements, and those seem pretty stark. That's not a good response at all.  
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