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Super Bass Horn V.02 by Startec (Quad Acoustics-F)

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citizensc View Drop Down
Young Croc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote citizensc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 November 2021 at 1:56am
For anyone that owns or loves the SBH, maybe stop reading here... your feelings may be hurt

The more I have learned about FLH design, the more I have come to hate this design. Its just sub optimal, it isn't that suppressing, after all it it is a design from the 90s, adapted to what what was considered a modern driver in 2008, in 2021 we have so many great drivers and design tools that designing something better than this isn't very hard. 

Here are a couple of real life measurements of the SBH in groups of 4, as you can see, it is trash below 50hz. I ran an akabak 3 sim of the SBH in groups of 4 and compared it to 4 x 18 inch reflex and 4 x 15 inch BG horn, both killed it below 50 hz. 




From a real life subjective (ears), objective (measurement) and theoretical (BEM sim) point of view this design does not score well IMO.

I have been planning on designing a 18 inch and 21 inch FLH and posting it here but I have been very busy as of late. I am finishing my masters and moving 3500km to take a new job before the end of the year but I may find time when I settle down in the new year. 
https://www.facebook.com/voyager.system

@voyager_soundsystem
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Toss Out Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 November 2021 at 8:43am
@citizensc
so although if i choose this woofer (18LW2600 Eighteen Sound) u are telling me that i will not hear nothing under 50hz? second question..im a bit noob but this woofer written above is about 1500w or 3000w? i dont know if i choose an amplifier i should choose it reading "nominal" or "continuous" power handling...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smitske96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 November 2021 at 9:13am
@Toss Out

Maybe the 'Sub of Doom' from Scott Hinson is something interesting.
If you have FB, you can get the plans from his facebook page DIYRM if I am correct.
Really big though LOL


Edited by smitske96 - 29 November 2021 at 9:14am
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citizensc View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote citizensc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 November 2021 at 9:24am
It doesn't really matter what you load it with, its a flawed design. 

I think 'nothing' below 50hz is an exaggeration but there is a long list of designs that will perform better below 50hz that are smaller, lighter, easier to build, easier to setup and cheaper. 
https://www.facebook.com/voyager.system

@voyager_soundsystem
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Toss Out Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 November 2021 at 9:26am
guys are you kidding mee?? anyway i saw some measures of sbh on the web...it seems good about frequencies..i dont know why @citizensc has this cutoff of sbh...ideas are accepted for the best sub frequencies horn...

sbh and cw l36 rulezz
..change my mind!!
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smitske96 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smitske96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 November 2021 at 9:35am
I would say the response posted by citizensc would be enough info to change your mind Wink
Almost 10dB down @50Hz in a block of 4.. You can definately do better with the same amount of external volume.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 November 2021 at 9:48am
Originally posted by Toss Out Toss Out wrote:

guys are you kidding mee?? anyway i saw some measures of sbh on the web...it seems good about frequencies..i dont know why @citizensc has this cutoff of sbh...ideas are accepted for the best sub frequencies horn...

sbh and cw l36 rulezz
..change my mind!!


How many have you listened to? Or measured? It’s your money, wood and time, but myself and others would be looking elsewhere.

The Skram has very detailed plans here:
https://data-bass.ipbhost.com/topic/742-riccis-skram-subwoofer-files/

And it's quite forgiving on driver choice. Not technically a horn, but very optimised. Hornresp 'max SPL' plots are not trustworthy in general - it's a linear acoustics model, and has no idea about distortion thresholds or cone load - but here's an example of the response shape of various drivers at their Xmax limit:


Hornresp inputs are:

But make sure to use the complex semi inductance model. Click Le so it goes green, and put the data in, Google it for a guide on finding it from TS parameters.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Toss Out Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 November 2021 at 10:16am
i trust you guys its bc that im here! so u dont think sbh could be the best?
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sushi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sushi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 November 2021 at 1:13pm
Imho sbh is absolutely NOT the best bass horn design, on the contrary it can be one of the worst bass horns one can choose to build. It's massive, heavy as f***, tricky and expensive to build.. and the results doesn't pay back: it has a really uneven response, a big dip at 50hz (where most dance music basslines hit) that gets a bit better only with more than 6/8 cabs per stack.. it seems the designer tried to reach lower frequencies, but sacrifying the overall performance. No surprise they're mostly used in freepartyies, where sometimes sound quality isn't the primary goal, and even there most skilled crews get rid of them after some time. I wouldn't even compare it with the CV L36, which is an old commercial product but definitely performs better in its range (Cerwin Vega is STILL working on that old design for their cabs).
To be brutally honest, i understand you like the look of them, but speakers are made for hears, not for eyes.. well, even the back plays a big part so believe who said you can get much more from that air volume, and spare your time, money and backpain for a smarter design.

Edited by sushi - 29 November 2021 at 1:23pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Toss Out Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 November 2021 at 1:48pm
i understand really good...u make change my idea @sushi in your opinion wich could be the best horn cabinet for 18lw2600 eighteen sound woofer? this is the woofer... https://www.eighteensound.it/en/products/lf-driver/18-0/8/18lw2600

i look around the web to have an idea of what is better for my ears not my eyes and i find 1850 or wsx..id like to have punchy response from a cabinet and low freq really loud and deep.. i hope u can help me
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Toss Out Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 November 2021 at 1:51pm
sorry for off topic...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sushi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 November 2021 at 11:28pm
You'd better load the 18LW2600 in a reflex cab, since it has been designed for that job. Maybe you can try and see if it works in scoops as well, but it won't sound like a front loaded horn.
If you really need flh for sub duty, then read the threads about 1850, Martin wsx, invader, CV L36, punisher, lab, and so on.. do some research and see what's best for your purposes, just keep in mind there's no "best bass horn" in absolute terms: it's up to what music you'll play, where, the level of spl you need, at what frequency.. and how much money you can spend!
I think 4 reflex cabs loaded with the 18LW2600 (well processed and driven by proper amps) would probably give enough deep and loud sub bass to shake belly buttons 10mt away outdoor, with high spl focused on the dancefloor, without being heard miles away (unlike most folded horns), and the cabs would be lighter, cheaper and easier to build. On the other side, with folded horns like 1850 or L36 you'll be quite loud and punchy but you'll need more than 4 cabs stacked together to get deep sub frequencies with decent spl.

Edited by sushi - 29 November 2021 at 11:32pm
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