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Synergy Horns vs (well made) coaxial drivers?

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ShokZi View Drop Down
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    Posted: 29 July 2013 at 4:02pm
I've never been lucky enough to hear a synergy horn in person, but they look amazing!
I was wondering what the difference between these and a coaxial 12" such as the RCF CX12n351 is, as all i've found in terms of comparison is the fact that coaxials that use the 12"cone as a horn such as the eminence can lead to problems as the driver moves, but the RCF has a big conical horn that doubles as a phase plug (apparently), so my question is what other drawbacks the RCF would have in comparison to a synergy horn?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Teunos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2013 at 5:51pm
The biggest disadvantage a horn in front of the cone gives is reflections in the upper region the 12'' produces. If you want to use a full horn to controle the dispersion, it will often take up most of the frontal area of the 12'' cone. This dictated the upper crossover frequency for the 12'' due to resonances and reflections from/off the horn. BMS ie believe sows socks around their horns to help overcome this problem partially.
Also, the dispersion of these drivers is always conical, which means that other than monitors or small installation speakers they are not very usable as full range FOH, only on the very small rigs.

The advantage however is that a coaxial driver as you decribe, is that if it has CD characteristics, and the crossover if phase-linear, the Gain Before Feedback will increase significantly due to uniform FR across the sound stage.

I.m.o. coaxal drivers (with a cone and a driver attached to the magnet, so not BMS 459x drivers etc) are mainly usable for monitors. Using Coaxial drivers like the bms 459x is an entirely different discussion.

A Synergy horn always requires lots of drivers to work satisfactory. It also required a great amount of knowledge and develeopment before a decent product is had. When done correctly however, it can yield amazing results. Synergy horns are however used mostly for larger systems and not generally for monitors. 

So different beasts for different applications, but they styrive for the same goal, which is phase- and frequency lineair reproduction across the spectrum from a point source.
Best regards,
Teun.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ShokZi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 July 2013 at 4:11pm
That was a really good answer Big smile
Couple more questions;

whats so bad about conical dispersion in FOH applications? it seems quite nice on the Court RAMJET series..

Also, you mentioned the thing about socks, im not sure if its the same, but there's a bunch of foam behind this horn and it seems strategically placed, could that be the same concept?

You mentioned the BMS 459- Series, i was looking at the BMS triaxial series, do they address the drawbacks of the coaxial that you mentioned?

Thanks again for your help :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Pasi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 July 2013 at 4:12pm
Yes. And the price is just horrendous. Lists over a grand / unit.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ShokZi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 July 2013 at 4:15pm
Thats why i opted out, a better question would be is it worth triple the price of the RCF that to be honest, sounds better than everything iv ever heard that isnt a tannoy?
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MarjanM View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarjanM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 July 2013 at 4:48pm
Funny you mentioned Tannoy which actually use a BMS hf drivers in their PA series :-)
Marjan Milosevic
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ShokZi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 July 2013 at 4:50pm
Nicest PA box iv heard period. Kinda what spurred my obsession with point sources
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote To Old Now Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 July 2013 at 5:21pm
You have just made me think about the Tannoy Supper Dual which was done in  1993. This was hell of a driver well before its time.
Where is it now? I wish i had a pair to play with. Think about all the cabs you could rebuild using that!
That is if you have just won the Euro-Millions Price in 1993 Pro-user price £995.00 +vat. ouch. Hmmm
You want it when?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarjanM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 July 2013 at 5:46pm
You get what you pay for.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Masssive Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 September 2013 at 11:31am
Heya,

I don't know a whole lot about how a synergy horn works but i did learn a few things in the Danley white paper on the subject.

Different frequencies require different flare rates at the throat to achieve proper coupling to the horn. The lower the frequency the slower the flare rate has to be. In the conical horn (like a synergy horn) the flare rate decreases as you get further away from the throat. So the LF drivers are stategically places some distance down the horn in order for them to achieve proper coupling.

Also as Teunos stated coxaial drivers are almost always used in stage monitor where comp is horn loaded by the 12" is reflex loaded. So this is not a fully horn leaded design as the synergy horn is.

www.thegroundedsound.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Phil B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 September 2013 at 1:24am
Originally posted by Masssive Masssive wrote:

So the LF drivers are stategically places some distance down the horn in order for them to achieve proper coupling.


Just a note on this. The LF is not fully horn loaded all the way down. In the SH50 or SH 60 the front of the driver is loaded by the horn down to about 180 hz but the rear output is some kind of 6th order bandpass which comes back into the horn and props up the output down to 100 - 90hz.

See my fun & games with Synergy horns here....

http://forum.speakerplans.com/th-unity-horn-12v-system_topic63191_page5.html

I have used co-ax boxes as FOH speakers and as stated on another thread on here they sound great close up but really drop in output from 20 - 30m. Ideal for inside short throw or monitor applications but not good for larger events.

Now if you could say put a Synergy style top end on a reflex 12 or 15 " you`d be onto a good thing.....

Oh hang on, someones done that already ...he he

http://yorkville.com/loudspeakers/unity/product/u15/

.p.
Mostly harmless.... except if catering is shut.

Solar & Wind Sound System Shennanigans..http://diyhifi.biz/
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