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gen0me View Drop Down
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    Posted: 24 June 2019 at 11:28am
I am looking for tablet or rather touch monitor. Plan was to run desktop starting it up on hdmi out, after logging in change to remote desktop app going through wifi.
But basicly why should I be lifting whole desktop case for some field measurements.. So has anyone tried running REW or something similar to on tablets? Actually I can even record sweep and play it, the problem is with mic input. Condenser measurement mics require phantom. So main issue is really external soundcard. How are external soundcards with drivers for tablets? Do they work? Any tested? How with ASIO? USB/Firewire compatibility?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 June 2019 at 12:29pm
Get a Surface Pro, and a Behringer UPhoria interface. Cheap, just fine for 90% of what you’ll need.

Add a Manfrotto Nano Stand for a super portable solution.

Edited by toastyghost - 24 June 2019 at 12:29pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gen0me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 June 2019 at 1:20pm
Does it have hdmi input?
I am looking for something more like:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/WIMAXIT-Portable-Monitor-1920x1080-Built/dp/B07J4JH6Z8/ref=asc_df_B07J4JH6Z8/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=310785434040&hvpos=1o2&hvnetw=g&hvrand=1569907236025637086&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1006886&hvtargid=pla-561746278453&psc=1
Maybe:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Portable-Monitor-Touchscreen-Capacitive-Speakers/dp/B07F8QJG5N/ref=asc_df_B07F8QJG5N/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=310809345994&hvpos=1o20&hvnetw=g&hvrand=1569907236025637086&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1006886&hvtargid=pla-575943796075&psc=1
I cant find on both if they have battery or require power input(breaker for me).
Im also wondering how does usb-c output work? If I can make my PC start up on USB-C video output?
I make sound in FL with VSTs so using tablet as desktop screen is its primary function. And as I can run desktop app even on my smartphone, I think I cannot start my PC like this. I need standard hdmi/vga to start up.
USB 2.0Ouch Thats downgrade comparing to current Profire 610. So I would prefer usb to firewire adapter(device). Any out there?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 June 2019 at 1:51pm
No, they don’t work as a screen. I don’t know of any proper tablet that does. You can use software to add that function but it works over a network or Thunderbolt as the data needed is huge.

USB to FW doesn’t exist. FW required a dedicated chipset for data processing unlike USB. You can use FW via Thunderbolt however as it was made backwards compatible. Some devices have a USB C port that is Thunderbolt as well, but not all, and usually not all the ports on the device either.
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gen0me View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gen0me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 June 2019 at 3:33pm
Arent there devices that work as firewire extensions? Like cards on pcie? Not just plug changers.
Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

You can use software to add that function but it works over a network or Thunderbolt as the data needed is huge.
How do you configure it? Is the display driver installed on hard? Can be set on default screen? Will display show up before Windows logging screen?
How with USB C?

Somehow I managed to run desktop app on startup , but this is a long chain of processes... with automated cmd console start up - starting up network. 
I reminded myself that my asio drivers werent working without hdmi out turned on. Dont know why or how but... So this is next thing to fix.

I am pretty sure something will go wrong with it in worst possible moment. I set up this app few times in the past. Every time it was supposed to work without issues next time I start it. Was wrong 3 out of 3 times.

I feel by my smartphone how resource consumming this is. Its getting hot instantly.


Edited by gen0me - 24 June 2019 at 3:34pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote APW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 June 2019 at 3:56pm
Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

Get a Surface Pro, and a Behringer UPhoria interface. Cheap, just fine for 90% of what you’ll need.

Add a Manfrotto Nano Stand for a super portable solution.


A cheaper option to a surface pro…..

Back in December I purchased (on a deal) a 10.8” DELL Venue 11 Pro 7140 windows 10 tablet for £200.00 from Amazon, It is runs full windows 10 Pro and hence can run pretty much any software you can run on a windows 10 PC (excluding hi-end games etc.), it has a 128GB SSD, 4GB RAM and an Intel Core M 5Y10 CPU.

So far I’ve been extremely pleased with my purchase…. Amazon still sell this tablet, however it’s now £259.99, knowing what I now know I’d say it’s still a bargain.

OK, its not as powerfull as a surface pro but it has done everything I have ever asked of it and at 1/4 of the price.

As for drivers..... with a windows tablet, If your device has a windows 10 drivers it should work just fine.



Edited by APW - 24 June 2019 at 3:59pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 June 2019 at 4:26pm
That processor will struggle with real time FFT analysis.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gen0me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 June 2019 at 5:31pm
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+M-5Y10+%40+0.80GHz&id=2316
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i7-7660U+%40+2.50GHz&id=3016
14nm and DDR3(?) High on benchmark. I guess good choice for calculations not requiring much of a data sweep.

I prefer desktop for calculations. They are made for it. After 4 years of running AMD FX to ridiculous temperatures finally motherboard broke LOLMany times for even 36hours in a row over 70deg. By estimate I would say it runned 85 deg for ~12hours when system clock brooke. Still runned after that for 3 years till motherboard gave up. Sabretooth, to be fair north/south bridge got plenty of abusive temperatures too.


Edited by gen0me - 24 June 2019 at 5:32pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gen0me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 June 2019 at 7:00pm
What are you using for fft on tablet?
You connect it to the audio interface with mic?
How does bass crossover frequencies look on tablets mic?
Have you ever tried running some crazy audio project on it? How hot will it get long term? Would you relay on it?


Edited by gen0me - 24 June 2019 at 7:09pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote kevinmcdonough Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 June 2019 at 10:41pm
hey

Having just come to this thread, could I clarify a few things, as I'm a bit confused?

I get the idea that you're wanting to provide an easy way for portable measurements. But what kind?  Are you just talking about delay towers and setting the delay times between mains and subs etc? Or are you talking about actually measuring the response of cabs?

In either case, first of all it depends on what you mean by "tablet". On the one hand you have things like iPads and Android tablets, and on the other hand you have something like a surface pro which is a full windows machine running on something that looks like a tablet, but actually has the full functionality of a normal PC. 

For the ipad/Android (proper tablet) route, you can get some basic measurement mics that plug into the headphone socket of an iPad and provide you with some measurement functionality. They'll be good enough for basic delay setting and lining up subs and tops, but won't exactly be lab grade quality for actually getting reliable data on the response of a cab, or calibrated SPL etc. And you're obviously restricted to the "Apps" that come from the app store/play store, not the normal versions of smaart/systune/REW etc. 

You can get some soundcards designed to work with these tablets, the motu Microbook is the one that springs to mind, but I have one in my Peli and when I tried to use it on my iPad it was very stuttery and didn't work well. May have been a set up issue I didn't spend ages trying to fix it.

On the other hand, for the machines like the Surface pro (or an older Acer w700 that I have), they're full windows machines that just look like tablets, so have all the same functionality of a normal PC or laptop. Soundcards work fine, all the software runs as normal etc. Really the issue is that it's just expensive, as you're paying the price for getting decent processors and systems crammed into such a small package. There are cheaper versions that run full windows like this, but as kyle says they may struggle to run the software in real time properly. 


For me I'm just in the middle of putting together a new measurement rack. It'll be based around a Laptop, with my Motu 4pre soundcard and a Rodelink wireless connection all racked together, so I can do wireless as well as wired measurement mics, and potentially run 4 mics at once if I ever needed to. All packed into a 1560 Peli with the cabling and mics etc to make a little package.  And as I use systune for my measurements, I'm in the fortunate position that it has a built in web server, so just using the normal browser I can link into it from my iPad and see the display running while I have a walk about the venue, with the Laptop still doing the heavy lifting and actual measuring sitting at FOH. 


k





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gen0me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 June 2019 at 12:37am
Originally posted by kevinmcdonough kevinmcdonough wrote:

I get the idea that you're wanting to provide an easy way for portable measurements. But what kind?  Are you just talking about delay towers and setting the delay times between mains and subs etc? Or are you talking about actually measuring the response of cabs?
Easy way of measuring response of cabs. + tablet should be used to start up PC through hdmi/vga(backup plan) as this is my DSP. I can live without delay measurement as every time I have there PC already set up. Setting up PC when it is not needed means lifting extra keyboard, mouse, tv-screen(in my case). But naturally the more practical the better.

Originally posted by kevinmcdonough kevinmcdonough wrote:

For the ipad/Android (proper tablet) route, you can get some basic measurement mics that plug into the headphone socket of an iPad and provide you with some measurement functionality. They'll be good enough for basic delay setting and lining up subs and tops, but won't exactly be lab grade quality for actually getting reliable data on the response of a cab, or calibrated SPL etc. And you're obviously restricted to the "Apps" that come from the app store/play store, not the normal versions of smaart/systune/REW etc. 
Because of the microphone?(lack of phantom)
With Motu + tablet I can get away with lack of phantom and drivers(?) but as I understand it requires external power with Android(?). To be fair any USB interface with android drivers not requiring external power with phantom would work.

DSP is the weak point of the system unless there are 2 copies of it. Makes me even more confusedConfused

There is also one more reason why I am so into remote desktop solution - I need to run Abec so base for it has to be desktop. I kind of have one and a half solid desktop and even if tablet used as the main screen would break up I still can continue to party using smartphone.

Originally posted by kevinmcdonough kevinmcdonough wrote:

For me I'm just in the middle of putting together a new measurement rack. It'll be based around a Laptop, with my Motu 4pre soundcard and a Rodelink wireless connection all racked together, so I can do wireless as well as wired measurement mics, and potentially run 4 mics at once if I ever needed to.
Do you have any back up plan if laptop breaks?

Originally posted by kevinmcdonough kevinmcdonough wrote:

 And as I use systune for my measurements, I'm in the fortunate position that it has a built in web server, so just using the normal browser I can link into it from my iPad and see the display running while I have a walk about the venue, with the Laptop still doing the heavy lifting and actual measuring sitting at FOH.

But after measurement do you have to came back to the laptop to set up DSP? Or you acess it through wi-fi? With wifi you can mess up with filters more.

Originally posted by kevinmcdonough kevinmcdonough wrote:

All packed into a 1560 Peli with the cabling and mics etc to make a little package.
I have a steel serwer case for PC. Rack - mounteable. Like: https://www.xcase.co.uk/collections/x439l-short-4u-supporting-e-atx-motherboards-just-439mm-deep


Edited by gen0me - 25 June 2019 at 12:53am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote kevinmcdonough Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 June 2019 at 1:05am
I'm still a little confused to your set up. 

You're wanting to use a full size PC, but rather than having to plug in a keyboard and mouse every time you just want to use the touch screen to start it up? And you're just planning to record the sound sweeps on the tablet, and then analyse them later?


My situation is probably a little different to yours in that most of the work I do is live sound work. Whether for DJs or for live bands, the actual set up of the PA is generally the same in that we hang the arrays, put the subs in place, put the delay towers in if they're being used, and then time align everything. This is where the measurement software comes in. We can measure the phase of the arrays, subs, and delay towers and line all the phase responses up, delaying things as needed so it all works together as it should. We can also analyse the sound within the room and try and compensate for the acoustics of the venue, and we can measure at different points across the venue to try and ensure that we're providing as much the same sound to every seat as we can. After that, during the actual show it's left running as an RTA to help me quickly spot feedback frequencies if needed, and to monitor noise levels. 

While I would be doing some measurement in terms of analyzing actual cabs and setting up the active crossovers and frequency responses etc, that'd be done more at home or my unit, and would already be set for gig day.

yes I can also access the system settings from the tablet, either within the system DSP or the desk channel EQ, depending on what i'm doing. 

Even for the most basic gig I do, I would always have at least one laptop with me. Primarily this would be for music playback between the bands etc, but I'd also have a measurement mic and microbook in that Peli if I wanted to measure. 

If I'm setting up any system of any size for a bigger show, then the measurement rack I'm making would come too, which would include a second dedicated laptop for the measurements, the motu 4pre so i could run multiple mics and a wireless connection so one of them can be wireless and save me having to drag cables all over the place. 

I kind of feel as if in your situation you're complicating things more than you need to? If you want it to be mobile, then a cheap laptop with be more powerful than an equivalent priced tablet (some of the premium on a tablet is for cramming that technology), and you can plug a normal sound card straight into it, and a proper measurement mic can take phantom from that.  If you position is a little away from the speakers, then run a big long cable for the mic? Or buy a wireless link?

Yes it's not quite as compact as a tablet, but will save you all that hassle and will work out the box. If you're doing measurements of actual cabs and setting crossovers and things, then I'd think you'd want the most accurate set up possible, and the few extra minutes of plugging in a laptop wouldn't be the end of the world? 

And if you are under time pressure setting up for a show, surely that kind of measurement isn't the kind of thing you should be doing anyway, all that should be set up in advance and you should just be adjusting for delay times and tweaking system EQ for the room?


Kev
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