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Tekno - Scoops Vs folded horns
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Hooneytunes View Drop Down
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Joined: 07 September 2023
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    Posted: 07 September 2023 at 1:43am
I'm not sure where to put this, so I thought I'd put it in general.

Also apologies if I don't know much I'm somewhat new to this

Why do people seem to recommend folded horns like SBH, 1850, punishers etc for tekno music? 

And why not hogs and scoops? From what I've seen and heard hogs and scoops, as well as other direct radiating speakers like the dual loaded Martin audio subs seem to sound better than lots of folded horns that I've heard. 

I was thinking it is about hitting low hz but are both folded horns and scoop type builds not able to hit pretty low hz?

But from what I've seen people say hogs and scoops for jungle dubstep reggae and such and folded horns for 4x4 genres such as tekno and trance people seem to say horns

Or is this all a myth and a load of rubbish or is there reason for this?

Cheers let me know 
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BrainlessTekno View Drop Down
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Points: 188 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrainlessTekno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 September 2023 at 8:11am
Horns are known for their efficiency when used in stacked setups, and the genres you mentioned often employ entire walls of speakers. Therefore, it's practical to opt for horn speakers in such scenarios. Regarding scoops and hogs, they can work well too. However, it's important to consider that at free parties, you encounter a diverse crowd. If you trust all of them with your drivers, then using scoops and hogs is a viable choice. However, if you have reservations about entrusting your drivers to everyone, you might prefer speaker cabinets that conceal the driver inside.
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Points: 111 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sarsen1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 September 2023 at 8:53am
My understanding is that rear loaded horns, like scoops and hogs, typically have seemingly slower transient response but drop lower than front loaded horns like SBH 1850 etc, so they suit genres with long rolling bass notes rather than lots of punchy kick drums. RLH like scoops also have a phase interaction between the direct radiating part of the box and the horn mouth, this can create some cancelation creating a dip in certain frequencies (depending on the design) around the upper bass/'kick' frequencies which could be favourable for some genres but typically not for the 4x4 style music that features less sub and more kick.

 Hogs are almost a tapped horn/scoop hybrid and probably would be better suited than a regular scoop to Tekno etc but plenty of people have done Tekno parties with many types of scoop (look some of the legendary free party rigs of the 90s).

BR like the double Martin boxes you speak about will sound great on most genres but will typically be less efficient and need more amp power which is more cost, weight etc.
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Im somewhat out of touch re: modern techno but it never used to be a particularly sub oriented genre, emphasising the 60-150 region more than the octave below. 

Scoops dont tend to reproduce this kick region well as there are inherent cancellations from the direct front and horn loaded rear of the driver that cannot be compensated for with eq.

Front loaded and bandpass horns on the other hand excel in this region but unless they have a long hornpath and are used in large arrays they dont reproduce sub 40/50hz well.

A combination of both can give excellent results but can also be a pain in the arse to integrate without cancellations

Reflex boxes can cover the entire range well without the need for an extra passband but often lack the brutality and immediacy of horns

As ever, it depends on your needs and the compromises that are acceptable to you
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Originally posted by sarsen1 sarsen1 wrote:

My understanding is that rear loaded horns, like scoops and hogs, typically have seemingly slower transient response but drop lower than front loaded horns like SBH 1850 etc, so they suit genres with long rolling bass notes rather than lots of punchy kick drums. RLH like scoops also have a phase interaction between the direct radiating part of the box and the horn mouth, this can create some cancelation creating a dip in certain frequencies (depending on the design) around the upper bass/'kick' frequencies which could be favourable for some genres but typically not for the 4x4 style music that features less sub and more kick.

 Hogs are almost a tapped horn/scoop hybrid and probably would be better suited than a regular scoop to Tekno etc but plenty of people have done Tekno parties with many types of scoop (look some of the legendary free party rigs of the 90s).

BR like the double Martin boxes you speak about will sound great on most genres but will typically be less efficient and need more amp power which is more cost, weight etc.

Pretty much agree with all that.

Yep, Scoops favor slow rolling bass lines.

However many 18" FLH cabs cannot do < 45hz in pairs, hence being ridiculed by Scoop dudes.

Also hence why I rate WSX.

Maybe loading modern 18s in existing flh designs, will improve extension  below 50hz.
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Yes some FLH can play low and will have faster impulce response than scoops / RLH, tapped horn etc,  i think they sound much better for techno, techy dnb etc.  FLH can genrally take more eq down low as closed rear chamber reduces excursion, we used to EQ punishers around 35-40Hz and never had issues with over excursion.  The downside with FLH is that if you use a 18 or 21" driver and want to play to 35-40Hz then they are going to have to be big cabinets, but you can do it with multiple smaller cabinets if you use say 8 x 12" punishers instead of 4 x big 18" horns. 

 
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