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THAM 15 - Touring Version! (and matching top)
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Old Croc
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Joined: 11 October 2012
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Points: 1855 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote all bass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 September 2015 at 12:14pm
Originally posted by bass*en*mass bass*en*mass wrote:

looking for a universal bass cab 45-150, highly efficient, ideally to suit 15pzb40s i have in Limmer215 horns now. Singles should be handable alone so 45kg loaded max, roughly 60x60x60cm.

Options so far:
BPH - with all its downsides for my taste
FLH - best transient response, hard to reach desired f3 within small package
ported FLH - seems a good compromise
tapped horn - not sure it sounds "tight" enough for my liking
Does it need to be a horn? Have you considered PPSL bass reflex. You could do something with barn doors, making the ppsl cavity the first section of the horn, if you need the extra SPL.
https://www.instagram.com/my_modular_journey/
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Points: 4009 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bass*en*mass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 September 2015 at 12:30pm
Not sure PPSL would suit the needs soundwise, propably too hifi?
+ its quite big, heavy, no directivity - good for small systems but not really ideal for free scalability imo.. rather have 16 small`ish singles for different tasks than 8 doubles ;)

Whats peoples opinions on small tapped horns like the Tham, compared to similar sized cabs of different techniques?
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Points: 216 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bcs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 September 2015 at 3:10pm
Some people on here thinks its a waste of time building more than 4 tham15 but i think its a fantastic cab in terms of size/portability and sound quality. i personally have 8 that i use from just 1 to all 8 if needed and it works for me. much more efficient to a bass reflex of similar size. 

Yes, it does need a premium driver to get the best out of it as alot of people here think its a dissadvantage from a price point but show me a decent brand of cabs that uses cheap speakers and then i will accept it as a dissadvantage. Im sure the likes of ASS, MM Acoustics , Tony Wilkes even Bee's cabs on here uses premium drivers.  

Mike
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Points: 7735 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarjanM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 September 2015 at 5:16pm
If you aim for premium performance, then no other way then using premium components.
Now about the Tham15. It will have advantage over a reflex cab using the same driver, and it will go bit lower then a ported horn. The driver in question is far from premium but since i have heard how Kapp15LF2 works in the Tham i think your driver will do good.
So for me that is a good choice.
Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
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https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713
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Points: 4009 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bass*en*mass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 September 2015 at 5:58pm
thanks for your opinion Marjan..
I dont think the pzb40 is that bad, obviously not on par with modern premium drivers but Djk rates them for his ported Lascala cabs, they also do well in the BPHs.

Whats considered optimum parameters for a smallish Tapped horn?
imo:
high`ish BL 25-30
Fs around desired 1/4wave tuning
Q 0.3`ish
xmax as high as possible

"efficient reflex driver with slight horn tendencies"?

How would one describe the tonality of a small TH compared to the other options?
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Points: 325 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote martinsson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 September 2015 at 4:54pm
"Some people on here thinks its a waste of time building more than 4 tham15 but i think its a fantastic cab in terms of size/portability and sound quality. i personally have 8 that i use from just 1 to all 8 if needed and it works for me."

I wonder why that is? the number of THAM15 to build I mean, why is it a waste to build more then four? do they not scale well? are they difficult to stack (not deep/stable enough)? are they not deemed suitable for large scale applications?

BCS - how do you experience the capacity increase of the THAM15 when deploying eight of them compared to four ? and just out of sheer curiosity, what coverage in terms of crowd and/or venue size are you able to suitably cover when deploying all eight of them ?
Swedish Pro-fi diy-nerd - http://www.martinsson.cc/blog/
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Young Croc
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Points: 1337 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote b grade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 September 2015 at 5:07pm
Its not that a bunch of TH's sound bad. Just that there is more to gain from bigger stacks of other horn design types. Its not a waste to make a bunch of them, but they won't really play much lower or the throw become as directional as a bigger stack of FLHs for example.
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Ok, but is a pile of 8x tham15 much smaller then a pile of 8x 1850s?
If it sounds like a gorilla is trying to escape, turn it down.
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Points: 3731 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kevinmcdonough Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 September 2015 at 11:19pm
Originally posted by martinsson martinsson wrote:

"Some people on here thinks its a waste of time building more than 4 tham15 but i think its a fantastic cab in terms of size/portability and sound quality. i personally have 8 that i use from just 1 to all 8 if needed and it works for me."

I wonder why that is? the number of THAM15 to build I mean, why is it a waste to build more then four? do they not scale well? are they difficult to stack (not deep/stable enough)? are they not deemed suitable for large scale applications?

BCS - how do you experience the capacity increase of the THAM15 when deploying eight of them compared to four ? and just out of sheer curiosity, what coverage in terms of crowd and/or venue size are you able to suitably cover when deploying all eight of them ?


hey

It's not that they don't scale well as such, but just there is no real advantage to it compared to a FLH. 

The idea of a tapped horn (and a ported horn) is that it's a really good middle ground between reflex and a full horn. When used in singles, you get a bit of the sensitivity of a horn but also a bit of the range of a reflex and if designed well the low end doesn't suffer too much.   As it sounds roughly the same as one or in multiples (it doesn't add anything to the sound when grouped like a FLH) if you have a few they can be used as building blocks and can just use one for small gigs and a few for bigger ones, and should always sound pretty good. 

However some people would suggest that if you're building a big pile of something and would always be using it that way, there would be no point in a tapped horn and you should just go for a FLH. That way you would get the full sensitivity of a horn but wouldn't lose anything on the low end, would make up the low end from the group stacking and would never need the utility of being able to use it in singles. 

k
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Originally posted by mini-mad mini-mad wrote:

Ok, but is a pile of 8x tham15 much smaller then a pile of 8x 1850s?



Yes, A pile of 8x 1850s is 2.5 times the size of a pile of 8x Tham-15s.
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martinsson View Drop Down
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Points: 325 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote martinsson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2015 at 10:52am
Quote Yes, A pile of 8x 1850s is 2.5 times the size of a pile of 8x Tham-15s.
 
That's some pile :) I gather then that the 1850's would scale nicely and become more than 2,5 times "better" in terms of SPL capacity, directivity and SQ, logistics aside that is.
I wonder how the THAM15's would fare from a volumetrical efficiency perspective, i.e how would twenty THAM15's compare to eight 1850's? given that the stacks then would be equal in size (volume).
 
Just as an exercise of the mind I mean, there are of course many other factors to consider, sheer practicality, amp-channels, "stackabillity", and a whole lot more I'm sure, so please do not take this seriously :)

 
Swedish Pro-fi diy-nerd - http://www.martinsson.cc/blog/
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Young Croc
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Points: 1337 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote b grade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2015 at 3:31pm
TBH, I bet that would sound just as good if not better, but the cost of drivers would probably be more, and it would require more wood and be a heavier net weight. It would be hard to pick a good even playing field to compare them to eachother. I definitely think it is an silly opininion that making 8 is a waste. If you like how they sound, then make the amount you need.

Problem with FLH is you may not like how they sound UNTIL you make the amount you need. Hopefully after all that work, it will sound right.
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