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Throw or not to throw?

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doller View Drop Down
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    Posted: 02 December 2021 at 10:18am
So! It has been said that throw does not exist. Ok !
Why did speaker company's like Martin and Fane state long throw on some of their designs? Did they have no idea about what they were talking about?
If I take 4x double reflex subs and some reflex tops I can hear them well around 5 or 6 meters away.. If I get some horn loaded subs and horn loaded tops I can hear them 10 to 15 meters away. I guess that isn't throw but what is it? does the term throw just mean you can hear them a bit further away? 
Get ya science papers out Toasty. Explain please.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote munkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2021 at 10:22am
This 100%

A mate had an ohm pukk stack. When you stood in front of it, you could feel the bass, but not that much. When you stood back 10m, you could really feel it!! 
the midtops!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Esc4pe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2021 at 11:03am
Originally posted by doller doller wrote:

So! It has been said that throw does not exist. Ok !
Why did speaker company's like Martin and Fane state long throw on some of their designs? Did they have no idea about what they were talking about?
If I take 4x double reflex subs and some reflex tops I can hear them well around 5 or 6 meters away.. If I get some horn loaded subs and horn loaded tops I can hear them 10 to 15 meters away. I guess that isn't throw but what is it? does the term throw just mean you can hear them a bit further away? 
Get ya science papers out Toasty. Explain please.

Are you allowed to link other forum’s posts in here? There’s a plethora of information on SP about this topic but the search feature seems to be skipping years of info! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smitske96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2021 at 11:09am
The term Throw is more a marketing thing in that respect for companies. It will come down to the louder speaker is at the beginning, the louder it is further away.  So regarding your example of the BR vs Horn, the stack with hornloaded cabinets is louder from the start, hence its louder 15m back. (This of course is a very basic explanation that not covers the whole science behind it). 

If you have fb, I could link you to a post from Rog Mogale on speakerfreakers regarding throw.
Besides that one, enough reading matarial about it (would need to look it up)


Edited by smitske96 - 02 December 2021 at 11:13am
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MPASOUND View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MPASOUND Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2021 at 4:35pm
Louder over here=Louder over there! 
It's just bits of paper flapping about in a box.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tinnitus Rex Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2021 at 5:41pm
As a side note, the lower the sub, the longer the waves get and often only the car park tends to get benefit.
"couldn't we just like... use headphones?"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VECTORDJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2021 at 5:47pm
So easy.....Put a Home Stereo Speaker (8 inch woofer and silk dome tweeter) on a stage and play it as loud as you dare. Do not burn it out. Next to that set up a system with 2 folded horn subs, horn mids, and a large format HF driver. Tri or quad amped. Set volume so SPL matches the home speaker. Then walk 500 feet out from the stage and have Your Friend A/B................You will hear THROW.   Now add 1500 people in between You and the test speakers and You will really hear THROW.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote APC321 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2021 at 8:10pm
For example if you had a 90 degree x 40 degree compression driver horn flare, and you also had a 40 degree x 20 degree compression driver horn flare and you decided to compare them.

If you set them up next to each other to compare them, you would find that that the 40 x 20 will be louder than the 90 x 40 on-axis, but that the 90 x 40 will have a greater beamwidth, but at a lower level.

But the total amount of energy coming out of each horn is the same.

ie. There is the same amount of energy in a 40 x 20 compared to a 90 x 40 but it is concentrated in a smaller solid angle.

In this context you may have a 40 x 20 "long-throw" horn.

So "throw" would imply directionality.
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Tinnitus Rex View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tinnitus Rex Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2021 at 8:43pm
Sound level meters are fun,Why not play audio golf with a friend?


Edited by Tinnitus Rex - 02 December 2021 at 8:43pm
"couldn't we just like... use headphones?"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Conanski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 December 2021 at 3:55am
Originally posted by munkey munkey wrote:

A mate had an ohm pukk stack. When you stood in front of it, you could feel the bass, but not that much. When you stood back 10m, you could really feel it!!  

That's not throw but it is often incorrectly cited as an example of it. There are several things that can explain that result, indoors reflections from boundaries create complex interference patterns where bass is either cancelled or combined, this effect is completely determined by the size and shape of the room and the speakers position within it. I have personally heard this with reflex boxes in certain venues so it has nothing to do with the speaker type. 
A large stack of speakers outdoors imparts a degree of directivity to it's output.. depending on the frequency in question, and that increases the energy directed towards the listener versus spilled off the side and back. Also with a large stack, if you're standing at point blank range in front of it you're potentially only hearing a single box, but further back you are experiencing the combined output of the whole stack. 


Edited by Conanski - 03 December 2021 at 3:57am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 December 2021 at 6:41am
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Sound/diffrac.html
https://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=15289
https://archive.org/details/elementsofacoust00olso
https://www.artalabs.hr/AppNotes/AN4-FreeField-Rev03eng.pdf
https://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=21046

These are a good place to start. But a simple summary is that for the same radiating surface area, in the far-field, the axially-normalised directional response of a subwoofer array is almost identical regardless of the loading method. Remember, you have to compare apples to apples; that means a similar magnitude response (measure it and use EQ) and frontal surface areas, with horizontal symmetry.

That means that not only do you not beat inverse distance law by 'throwing' sound pressure farther with horn subs, but that the majority of common directional subwoofer array steering methods should also work just fine with horns too.

The old acoustics folks circa 1920-1950 got a hell of a lot right...

https://sci-hub.se/ is a useful bookmark, if you're a hobbyist.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote csg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 December 2021 at 7:00am
Intensity of sound at any distance is simply a function of the energy produced by the source and the dispersion of that energy.

Throw only exists as a perception of the difference in sound intensity from different sources at a given position. Off course if you experience Throw then it exists in your reality but thats more of a philosophical argument than a technical one….
“The fact is this is about identifying what we do best and finding more ways of doing less of it better”
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