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Tips for small indoors soundsystem

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RoadRunnersDust View Drop Down
Young Croc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RoadRunnersDust Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2024 at 9:44am
Originally posted by jahcuzzi jahcuzzi wrote:

In what sense do you think two reflex cabs can outplay a miniscoop?

Probably in the sense that BR cabinets just do what they do, multiples don’t *really* make that much of a difference other than to the volume. Whereas scoops just as nearly all other types of horn rely on being used in minimum quantities in order to mutually couple and perform to the expected levels and frequencies (at least when they are of a manageable size, you CAN build a bass horn that works on its own but it will be MASSIVE. Bigger than a Terrahorn.)

Lots of people can’t wrap their head (or ears) around the fact that they hear strong 50-60Hz without much under it and the perceive it as heavy sub which massively biases any advice you get from the internet that doesn’t have real-world recorded measurement to back it up.

Also, to reference the original post, if you want punchy bass then a scoop really isn’t the direction to go. Even a BR will be difficult to keep punchy if you also want it to drop low


Edited by RoadRunnersDust - 06 February 2024 at 9:47am
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RoadRunnersDust View Drop Down
Young Croc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RoadRunnersDust Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2024 at 9:52am
Since you’re only looking at small sizes of events and want something easy to build, BandPass cabinets will probably be the best bang-for-buck option for you. 

A pair of 18” BP subs with 15” BP kicks and whatever tops you want to run from about 150-180Hz upwards would probably be more than enough.

I’d also second the recommendation to have separate subs and kick boxes to ensure you have the depth and punch you’re looking for.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jahcuzzi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2024 at 6:46pm
Originally posted by bob4 bob4 wrote:

I think you haven't addressed some important questions:

1. Transport
2. Storage
3. Amping
4. Budget
5. Availability (aka where are you living->what is available for purchase)


Right! So,
1 & 2) I have access to a small van, nothing too fancy, and have a small room I can use for storage (around 5 m2)
3) If you are asking what kind of amps I was considering using, I have to tell you I haven't thought about it much yet. I was thinking of searching for appropriate second-hand stuff once I selected the cabs, is this a bad approach?
4) Around 6000€-7000€, but willing to go the extra mile if needed
5) I live in Portugal, so I guess I have access to the european manufacturers, besides the local second hand market (not very large)


Originally posted by RoadRunnersDust RoadRunnersDust wrote:

Also, to reference the original post, if you want punchy bass then a scoop really isn’t the direction to go. Even a BR will be difficult to keep punchy if you also want it to drop low


I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing. In my original post I meant for a punchy kick as in a kick drum, not a bass with fast decay and attack. Which one do you mean?

Also, thanks a lot for your other tips Smile. Yeah, 3-way is probably where I'm headed. Any suggestions regarding bandpass sub models/plans?


Edited by jahcuzzi - 08 February 2024 at 7:07pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hectorberman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2024 at 7:25pm
I would suggest building 4x B&C sub 18s (a free plan available on their website) and then buying some good quality midtops.

It would be a very simple system, and pack a punch indoors. If you needed to expand it you could simply build more sub 18s and upgrade tops as required!
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RoadRunnersDust View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RoadRunnersDust Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 February 2024 at 8:29am
Originally posted by jahcuzzi jahcuzzi wrote:

I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing. In my original post I meant for a punchy kick as in a kick drum, not a bass with fast decay and attack. Which one do you mean?

The bass region of the audible spectrum where most of the “punch” of a kick drum lives. The actual source instrument is irrelevant, you want a system that can deliver fast transient response in the bass region which scoops don’t really do well IME.

Quote
Also, thanks a lot for your other tips Smile. Yeah, 3-way is probably where I'm headed. Any suggestions regarding bandpass sub models/plans?

If you’re going for ease of build then it’s not that difficult to design a simple BP4 or BP6. You just need to be cautious of over-doing the max SPL from the design as it will become very one-note-of the response gets too peaky.
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jahcuzzi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jahcuzzi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 February 2024 at 7:35pm
Originally posted by RoadRunnersDust RoadRunnersDust wrote:

The bass region of the audible spectrum where most of the “punch” of a kick drum lives. The actual source instrument is irrelevant, you want a system that can deliver fast transient response in the bass region which scoops don’t really do well IME.

Thanks for the teaching Big smile

Originally posted by RoadRunnersDust RoadRunnersDust wrote:

If you’re going for ease of build then it’s not that difficult to design a simple BP4 or BP6. You just need to be cautious of over-doing the max SPL from the design as it will become very one-note-of the response gets too peaky.

I'm not sure I'm ready for designing yet LOL
Do you (or anyone else) have any experience with this 18sound design?https://www.eighteensound.it/media/W1siZiIsIjIwMTgvMTAvMjMvMTFfNDhfMjJfNDM0XzE4c291bmRfc2luZ2xlXzIxX2tpdC5wZGYiXV0

Or any opinions on it really
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jahcuzzi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jahcuzzi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 February 2024 at 11:52am
Hey again guys.

So, after doing some further readings, the idea of having a punchy kick section is still apealling to me, but I'm now kinda torn in the sense that I feel that maybe starting modestly and getting used to run a 2way sound (subs + midtops, with passive xover inside these) would be maybe a wiser/humbler option. This is, of course, unless you think sound quality would suffer enormously. Nonetheless, if I feel a kick is really missing I can always build some later, right ? (maybe 2x HD15s?). 

Regarding midtops, I think I will just buy some secondhand, or even off the shelf ones.

With the subs, I don't mind spending a bit extra (let's say, up to €1200 a box) and loading them with good quality drivers/getting extra amps, so I'm pending towards reflex. Due to portability and detailed documentation, I'm thinking of getting 2 of these speaker freakers dual 18 boxes: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vZNm7abMOv0yO85s7kBx4nS_vtQ1bgiA/view?fbclid=IwAR1sk_5xQ8I-Qr6St1xJdNADoTe_iQ0Ge2Dmt6ZrKFoLzcqam1MSJRTHK0Ihttps://drive.google.com/file/d/1vZNm7abMOv0yO85s7kBx4nS_vtQ1bgiA/view?fbclid=IwAR1sk_5xQ8I-Qr6St1xJdNADoTe_iQ0Ge2Dmt6ZrKFoLzcqam1MSJRTHK0I

So, what I came here to ask, if you have the patience to bear with me again Clap, is for some suggestions on what midtop speakers to buy/look out for, and at what freq should I xover them with these subs (or the future kick bins).

Also, feel free to call me out if leaving kicks out is really a bad idea, or if these subs are not the best thing for dub. I really appreciate the honesty.


Edited by jahcuzzi - 21 February 2024 at 11:55am
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RoadRunnersDust View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote RoadRunnersDust Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 February 2024 at 12:44pm
Whatever you do, don’t build HD-15s… They sound like bonky, honky dogshit. You’d be better off with half of a BPH-238 if you want to go for a pre-existing plan and they would give you much more freedom with driver selection.

There’s good sense in starting small and growing bigger as you get more knowledge and understanding, however it means there will be a compromise in your beginning system and you will have to have the discipline not to push the system too hard trying to make it do something it physically cannot achieve 

Second hand pro tops is generally the most sensible and cost effective route. By the time someone has developed an actually competitive “DIY” mid/high solution, they tend to want sensible money for it due to their investment.


Edited by RoadRunnersDust - 21 February 2024 at 12:46pm
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