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who makes amps for RCF boxes - is it Powersoft ?

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    Posted: 14 April 2022 at 9:18pm
Originally posted by jbl_man jbl_man wrote:

Originally posted by Line Array Line Array wrote:

are you guys saying that surface mount devices are not repairable ?

wouldn't that apply to powersoft and other high-density amps as well then ?

or basically all modern class D amps ?




Anything is repairable if money is no object, but finding someone willing to put the time into repairing, and obtaining certain hybrid parts at an economic rate versus replacement of a module is the question.



Definitely this. Diagnostics on a high density board is a lot more difficult & time consuming. And try source some of the custom transformers that a lot use. Not easy.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kedwardsleisure Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2022 at 5:10pm
I've got a plate amp from a JBL PRX just come in last night, together with another from a QSC k-series. I'll let you know which one wins on repairability!



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote APW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2022 at 2:38pm
Originally posted by snowflake snowflake wrote:

.......
although these resistors were undersized and therefore failed, it is a testament to their consistency and qc that they all failed within weeks of each other Clap

Yep, amazing consistency and under normal use they would have probably never fail but running 24/7 for several years sent them over the edge.

With regarding the replacement driver, It was a long time ago, the shop has been closed for over 10 years, the woofer had a slightly larger than normal (for the time) 12" chassis, and the only drivers what would fit were other RCF drivers that due to the RCF/Mackie fallout were not available, We considered getting adapters machined up but the client didn't like the price.
 
Ironically about a month after they were replaced, RCF sorted out its service network and the re-cone kits became available again.



Edited by APW - 14 April 2022 at 5:03pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snowflake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2022 at 2:13pm
Originally posted by APW APW wrote:

Originally posted by kedwardsleisure kedwardsleisure wrote:

The old ART300/500 amps were analogue and thru-hole construction, generally reliable except for the usual problem with most active cabs involving stuff vibrating off the board..
......
......

An anecdote regarding the old RCF/Mackie Art 300/500 amplifiers, I used to do the electronics repairs for a couple of music shops, one shop had a service contract at a hotel that had 20 of the Art 300A speakers permanently installed (at height) in a largish ball room, these were powered 24/7 and the system worked well for several years, then one weekend 5 died, then a few days later another 3 failed.

The fault was simple in that the amplifier has two 100ohm 1.6watt resistors that drop the +/- 40v rails down to feed the +/-15v rail regulators, one of these resistors would fail and so one of the 15v rails would disappear. This caused both the LF and HF amplifiers to swing hard one way, blowing the output transistors and both the drivers.

I advised the shop to get the remaining 12 cabinets to me ASAP so I could change the 100r resistors so the remaining cabinets wouldn’t suffer the same fate. The hotel refused to let the shop remove the remaining cabinets as they were "setting up for a conference and needed them”!!

On the day of the conference the shop "got the call" as the rest of the PA had stopped working and could they do something to help!!

This all happened at the time when RCF and Mackie were going through their “divorce” and due to the way they had set up the service arrangements the 12” woofer (or re-cone kit) was unobtainable, and as it’s not a standard chassis size nothing else fits the plastic cab. It was decided to wright-off all 20 failed cabinets.

…. All because a slightly undersized pair of resistors (and a client that didn't take advice)!!



although these resistors were undersized and therefore failed, it is a testament to their consistency and qc that they all failed within weeks of each other Clap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cravings Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2022 at 2:03pm
I've stuck cheap p-audio 12s into art 312s and they've fitted ok. Just saying.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jammin75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2022 at 1:01pm
i have a db es 1002 which i use for small tite space gigs can the amp module be repaired ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jbl_man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2022 at 11:33am
Originally posted by Line Array Line Array wrote:

are you guys saying that surface mount devices are not repairable ?

wouldn't that apply to powersoft and other high-density amps as well then ?

or basically all modern class D amps ?




Anything is repairable if money is no object, but finding someone willing to put the time into repairing, and obtaining certain hybrid parts at an economic rate versus replacement of a module is the question.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote APW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2022 at 11:10am

SMD is repairable but can be a PITA compared to thru-hole.

Most industrial (and well designed) electronics tends to be a hybrid, with all the small signal components in SMD and the power stuff still thru-hole.



Edited by APW - 14 April 2022 at 11:19am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Line Array Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2022 at 11:00am
are you guys saying that surface mount devices are not repairable ?

wouldn't that apply to powersoft and other high-density amps as well then ?

or basically all modern class D amps ?

even my 20 year old QSC PLX ( class H ) is Surface Mount.

wouldn't you have to go all the way back to toroid amps under that definition of repairability ?

or are you talking about something else ?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote APW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2022 at 10:30am
Originally posted by kedwardsleisure kedwardsleisure wrote:

The old ART300/500 amps were analogue and thru-hole construction, generally reliable except for the usual problem with most active cabs involving stuff vibrating off the board..
......
......

An anecdote regarding the old RCF/Mackie Art 300/500 amplifiers, I used to do the electronics repairs for a couple of music shops, one shop had a service contract at a hotel that had 20 of the Art 300A speakers permanently installed (at height) in a largish ball room, these were powered 24/7 and the system worked well for several years, then one weekend 5 died, then a few days later another 3 failed.

The fault was simple in that the amplifier has two 100ohm 1.6watt resistors that drop the +/- 40v rails down to feed the +/-15v rail regulators, one of these resistors would fail and so one of the 15v rails would disappear. This caused both the LF and HF amplifiers to swing hard one way, blowing the output transistors and both the drivers.

I advised the shop to get the remaining 12 cabinets to me ASAP so I could change the 100r resistors so the remaining cabinets wouldn’t suffer the same fate. The hotel refused to let the shop remove the remaining cabinets as they were "setting up for a conference and needed them”!!

On the day of the conference the shop "got the call" as the rest of the PA had stopped working and could they do something to help!!

This all happened at the time when RCF and Mackie were going through their “divorce” and due to the way they had set up the service arrangements the 12” woofer (or re-cone kit) was unobtainable, and as it’s not a standard chassis size nothing else fits the plastic cab. It was decided to wright-off all 20 failed cabinets.

…. All because a slightly undersized pair of resistors (and a client that didn't take advice)!!



Edited by APW - 14 April 2022 at 10:59am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Earplug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2022 at 9:38am
"Maybe I'm alone here but I think the 'designed by crown' EON and PRX amps are more friendly to work on."

Aye, marginal - but give me an old G2 module any day!  Smile



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kedwardsleisure Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2022 at 9:23am
The old ART300/500 amps were analogue and thru-hole construction, generally reliable except for the usual problem with most active cabs involving stuff vibrating off the board. SAme with the early DB opera range. But like with anything, cost cutting comes along and the AEB digipro modules are not IMHO really in the same league.

Maybe I'm alone here but I think the 'designed by crown' EON and PRX amps are more friendly to work on. Certainly they have gone to the trouble of writing a service manual with reliability bulletins and diagams in there, which is more than you can say for AEB Industriale who (according to their service agent) want the whole module changing for new.

Edited by kedwardsleisure - 14 April 2022 at 9:25am
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