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ceharden View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ceharden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: eminence?
    Posted: 05 August 2005 at 5:46pm
Well I bought the P-Audios but the band have now decided not to go ahead with the refurb (was to include actually screwing in the 15's properly and recarpeting as well as replacing the drivers).  Apparently their usual sound engineer turned up and fixed them on-site at a gig.  Must speak to this magician of a sound engineer!!!  Problem is, the lead singer has been used to hearing the wedges with no attenuation on the HF for many years of gigs; he'd probably complain if I made them sound 'normal'!!!

Anyway, I now have a pair of spare SN15MB's to do something with.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LunchieTey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 July 2005 at 2:38am
I'd have to say there'd be a nice improvement(just purely removing that nasty peak!) as well as stopping yourself going deaf AND might save the PSD's from cooking!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ceharden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 June 2005 at 8:57am
On the subject of Eminence, a band I've just started working with have some wedges (LE400 style) loaded with Delta15's and PSD2002's with no L-pad on the comp driver!.  As you can imagine they're not the sweetest sounding (heading for 10dB peak at 2k on the 15" as well).

I've offered to refurb them and my plan is to keep the compression driver but swap the Delta15 for an SN15MB as X(M)15 and put an L-pad in if necessary.  I reckon it'll be a massive improvement but before I go spending the bands hard earned money thought I'd bounce the plan off the forum for sanity's sake!

Cheers guys...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LunchieTey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2005 at 6:45pm
What you obviously want to achieve is reasonably flat response. If you don't use a low pass on the woofer you'll more often than not,get average results.
The woofer you use will NEED to have flat response,but unfortunately,most woofers have these nasty little peaks in the upper bands(like yours). If you don't do anything about it,it's ALWAYS going to annoy you and sound harsh.
To humans,the 2k-4k band is considered harsh if its louder than everything else. I don't think the gammas will sound all that bad in sub 1k frequencies. What about using a 2"exit compression driver? Then you can cross at 1k!
I bought a huge coil of 14g laminated copper wire(from an electric motor repair place) for $20au and a multimeter that measures inductance.I now wind my own high power(500wrms) coils to my own requirements! For me,any x-overs I make don't cost much except for the caps.
If you have a way of measuring driver response(rta like a behringer ultracurve) this is very helpful.
Ironically enough though,the design I settled on is the one I designed straight rom the response curves off p-audio's site. I just looked at it and thought they'd give pretty close results,and well..they did!
I also just took a look at the gamma response curve,it starts rising about 800hz to being 6db up at 1k,then at 1.5k jumps another 5 or so db to 2k. That's a 9db hump! I'd then say a 900hz 12db lowpass will be reasonable to say,1.8k. Just look up 'crossover calculator' on google and use that. Also use an L-pad(also on this site) to bring the HF down to about 97db(this is the sensitivity of the gamma below 800hz). This calculator shows you the layout and components you need,the only thing you need to make sure is that your components handle the power.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IAIN RENDLE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2005 at 12:16pm

thinking of converting my APT150's (if i dont sell them and get psds.) and gamma 15's into some cheep wedge monitors (prob xm15 design). and then get some P audio components.

i need to learn more about X overs. how to make them and stuff like that... its about 30 quid for a eminence x over how much does it cost to make ure own. and is it always a good idea to just a 2way cross and not just a high pass to stop the tweeters blowing?? (i am noticing that eminence loud speakers need to be all x overed at 1.6khz and not 3.5. )

in my honist opinion i think eminence are a bit sh*te..... (well the omega 18 is ok) but the Kilomax is a joke!!!

iain

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LunchieTey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2005 at 7:45am
Just have a look at trying a x-over underlap,ie 1k on the 15" and 2k on the psd you plan on getting. I had to experiment on my p-audio's(got expensive with all those caps!) and settled on 1.5k 6db lowpass and 3k 12db highpass-the ACTUAL transition is about 2k.
Have a bit of a play around,I personally find this part of speaker design quite enjoyable,it's amazing how much the x-over changes the final sound.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IAIN RENDLE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2005 at 3:29am

thanks very much for the advice  mate. yeah that was kind of the idea with the replacing of the tweeters and the lowering of the x over.

iain

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LunchieTey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2005 at 7:47pm

If you look at the response curve of 'most' eminence drivers,they have huge peaks(10 or so db from about 1-2.5khz). This is where the harshness comes from. -10db of equalisation is just simply not a good thing! Use a lower 12-db crossover on the 15"(underlap to HF driver). For example if the peak starts at 1k,use a 1k crossover,as the crossover cuts output above this,the driver is more sensitive and should balance out. This should leave the response 'reasonably' flat to 2k or so before it drops off.

This isn't going to be perfect without some experimentation but it will DEFINATELY reduce the amount of EQ you need.

Although I must point out the apt drivers are not exactly going to like being crossed lower than 3.5khz so you'll end up with a response hole.

Not the best choice of drivers in my oppinion but the lower x-over point on the 15 should help quite a bit-at least it won't rip your ears off!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jogge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2005 at 10:45am
Hi STIK_sounds,


I'm afraid you are using your equalizer for something it isn't intend to...

An equalizer should be used to flatten out the frequency response of the venue you are in.  Not for correcting the frequency response of your loudspeakers.

And why not invest a little bit more money in good speakers; it saves you an equalizer ...

Regards,
jochen
Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IAIN RENDLE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2005 at 6:41am

i made a pair of X15's with eminence Gamma 15's and APT150's (with a 3.5khz xover) when i first tried them the tweeter what extreamly loud. needed alot of attenuation.

stuck a L-pad resistor in there. sounds alot better. i would warn you though that the sound is still quite sharp around the 2-4 khz regeon. but nothing an eq can't fix. going to change the APT150's with some PSD1001's soon and also lower the X over to about 1.6khz. it will run alot happier and need less eqing!!!!!!

iain

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote norty303 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2005 at 5:10pm
The p-audio is less than 90.  Why go for something that might not work and only be a bit cheaper.  I can tell you that another 6kg+ added to the weight of the X15 would not be nice, they're a good one man lift at the moment but that might make them a little on the heavy side.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Phil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2005 at 4:49pm
sorry in the x15,,,,,,,,,will emminence sound good
Phil
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