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Ciare 18SW ; Bass Maker or Heart Breaker?

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Keen View Drop Down
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    Posted: 28 October 2019 at 5:06am
go for it

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 October 2019 at 5:05am
been done before

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darkmatter111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 October 2019 at 1:08pm
Reviving an old thread, this is a driver I have been investigating for use in a large system, in a domestic environment (not PA)
http://www.loudspeaker.com/Ciare/18.00SW#8%CE%A9 - http://www.loudspeakerdatabase.com/Ciare/18.00SW#8%CE%A9
I propose to load it in a sealed box for a low(ish) QTc of around ~0.6 a quick run through WinISD gives around 200 litres.
Still available here at Lean Business (Ipswich)
https://www.lean-business.co.uk/eshop/ciare-1800-sw-18-800-watt-8ohm-20htz-subwoofer-p-1762. - https://www.lean-business.co.uk/eshop/ciare-1800-sw-18-800-watt-8ohm-20htz-subwoofer-p-1762.html

Thoughts?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JahMic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2012 at 6:22am
Originally posted by levyte357- levyte357- wrote:

Originally posted by JahMic JahMic wrote:



Plenty of British Drivers would smash this.<--Yes Lev very trueBig smile. Would like PD1850 but i'm in the USA and  don't have the budget for that. Option are down to RCF-L18P300 and TBX100. Lev any thoughts between the too? 




For what cab?

For Folded horn/scoop, 18TBX100 not my favorite driver, but easily superior to this Ciare effort.

For reflex, RCFL18P300 also much superior to the Ciare.
Thanks Lev
There modified eminence scoop. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2012 at 5:18am
Originally posted by JahMic JahMic wrote:



Plenty of British Drivers would smash this.<--Yes Lev very trueBig smile. Would like PD1850 but i'm in the USA and  don't have the budget for that. Option are down to RCF-L18P300 and TBX100. Lev any thoughts between the too? 




For what cab?

For Folded horn/scoop, 18TBX100 not my favorite driver, but easily superior to this Ciare effort.

For reflex, RCFL18P300 also much superior to the Ciare.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JahMic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2012 at 5:12am


Plenty of British Drivers would smash this.<--Yes Lev very trueBig smile. Would like PD1850 but i'm in the USA and  don't have the budget for that. Option are down to RCF-L18P300 and TBX100. Lev any thoughts between the too? 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2012 at 12:52am
Originally posted by Timebomb Timebomb wrote:

Reference efficiency is less important in a horn than it is if the driver is to be used in a reflex box, especially a big long horn, the main reason for the low direct radiating efficiency is the high MMS, thick cone and long coil.  With the added mass of the air in the horn the difference between a 200g moving mass and a 370g moving mass will be much less of a factor than with a direct radiator. 


Very well put point.

My other issue with this driver in a long horn being, the Qes/Qts on the 18.00SW, does not "seem" to be compatible with the tight throat/compression in a horn like the WSX.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Timebomb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2012 at 12:38am
Reference efficiency is less important in a horn than it is if the driver is to be used in a reflex box, especially a big long horn, the main reason for the low direct radiating efficiency is the high MMS, thick cone and long coil.  With the added mass of the air in the horn the difference between a 200g moving mass and a 370g moving mass will be much less of a factor than with a direct radiator. 
James Secker          facebook.com/soundgearuk
James@soundgear.co.uk               www.soundgear.co.uk
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2012 at 10:01pm
Originally posted by Meat Meat wrote:

Their calculations for voice coil overhang do seem rather funny although I think total balls is stretching it somewhat:
(33-10)/2 = 11.5, not 14


OK, guess you used info from here http://oem.ciare.com/pdf_oriz.php?info=372,

Used the figures from here,

http://www.usspeaker.com/ciare%201800sw-1.htm

Which are,

SPEAKER MODEL

18.00 SW

SPECIFICATIONS

Nominal Basket Diameter

18" / 460mm

Impedance

4 or 8 ohms

AES Power Rating

800 Watts

Program Power 1,600 Watts

Frequency Response

20Hz - 1kHz

Sensitivity (1W/1m)

93dB

Voice Coil Diameter

4" / 100mm

Winding Material Copper
Former Material Fiber Glass
Winding Depth 1.0" / 25mm
Magnetic Gap Depth .5" / 12mm
Flux Density 1.3T

Which painted much less optimistic picture.

The Qes, Qts, Vas, "ref efficiency", still speak med grade car speaker to me.

Can't possibly fathom why someone would want to use driver with referency efficiency < 1.0, in PA cab. Dead


Edited by levyte357- - 22 October 2012 at 10:06pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Meat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2012 at 9:49pm
Their calculations for voice coil overhang do seem rather funny although I think total balls is stretching it somewhat:
(33-10)/2 = 11.5, not 14
11.5mm of real voicecoil overhang is a lot though. 14mm looks like a figure maybe obtained by them looking for the 90% BL point (I think thats what some people use, please correct me if I'm wrong) as using the above formula + (overhang X 0.21) would be a very strange thing to use.

Looks like in the right cab it'd be a total beast. Its very different in terms of parameters to most others I've seen.

The error on the resonant frequency of +-7Hz seems a bit strange too, although its nice to see errors - the PD website needs to state these really if it wants to justify putting their parameters to 5 significant figures (now that really does seem like a gimick).


Don't test the champignon sound
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2012 at 9:08pm
Just took a look at this driver,

Resonant Frequency (fs)

36.4Hz
Impedance (Re) 6.8 ohms
Electrical Factor(Qes) .47
Mechanical Q (Qms) 11.6
Total Q (Qts) .45
Compliance Equiv. Vol. (Vas) 92 Liters/3.25cu. ft.
Voice Coil Overhang (Xmax) 14.0mm
BL Factor 35.11 T-M
Diaphragm Mass (Mms) .371 kg.
Surface Area of Cone (Sd)m2 0.1104m2
Reference Efficiency .88%
Coil Inductance (Le) 1.72mH

IMHO, personally not for me.Dead

Above in red say why.

Xmax figure is b*llcks, real figure is 6.5 - 8.5, depending on fudge theorem utilised.

Plenty of British Drivers would smash this.

0.88% efficiency, Fane 18XB would be almost 3x times louder, with 800W power input.


Edited by levyte357- - 22 October 2012 at 9:14pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote paulus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2012 at 7:57pm
@ Dub spec any pics of ya horns sound interesting
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