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i would like to construct horns...

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tommysb View Drop Down
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    Posted: 05 July 2009 at 12:20pm
Half space. Which is 2pi steradians.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ಠ_ಠ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 July 2009 at 12:08am
im just gona model some stuff and link it...

*edit* what degree in radians would you suggest i model them in? i intend to use them both outdoors in fields (this is FARM country 10 minutes to the west) and in warehouses and abandoned garages (industrial stuff to the east of me downtown)...


Edited by ಠ_ಠ - 03 July 2009 at 12:11am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ಠ_ಠ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 July 2009 at 12:02am
i think beat is a REALLY narrow minded concept.  I just think a wall of 12s fits my needs.  If perfection existed we would know about.  Yea tho i think the micro size 12s would be COOL.  I'm talking plastic forming and stuff not just wood (which i suspect might influence other folks choice for 18s having sore attitudes about saw dust and banged knuckles hearing 3 times as many speakers and instantly having PTSD flash backs about building wood speakers... >_>)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomschute Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 July 2009 at 4:44pm
Originally posted by space-face space-face wrote:

the standard horn modeling program that people seem to use here is hornresp, it's free but takes a little getting used to. For other cabinet types such as reflex or band pass you can use winisd which is very easy to use. it may be possible to use something like comsol multiphysics to model horns accurately.... might be worth a go. 

can you post up some sims of a wall of 10 or 12 inch short horns that beats a small stack of 18 or 21 inch folded horns? I can't imagine that working terribly well. Also while there are a few 12" drivers with high power handeling and xmax 18" drivers in general move more air and can handle more power.

you might want to condense your post into something a bit more readable it's kinda hard to work out what you're asking!

 


spaceface re read the tread, and yours you have offered nothing of use, lol! There's plent of 12" drivers around with good xmax and power raeting - sorry not being picky just mis information or irrelevant threads don't help anyone. Although maybe not MASSIVE xmax. It isn't about 'moving air' with horns, whatever that's sposed to mean...

I assume using a really short horn with something like the ciare sw12 might be interesting... be interesting to see how small you could make it and how many you'd need to hit 45hz

Big walls of HD15s sound nice so taking it further would be interesting!


Edited by tomschute - 02 July 2009 at 4:47pm
Out to lunch... stableaudio@hotmail.co.uk
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sKs01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 July 2009 at 2:32pm
a 30mm xmax will not necisarily make up for 85db efficiency im assuming your talking about car audio drivers or similar which is the only place i have seen such large xmaxes cited for a 12".

take into account the sd of the driver and more than likley the drivers your looking at wont be as desirable as an 18" on a horn in a logistical sense as many many more cabinets will be required for the same spl, add to that the low bl and qts of such drivers and you might even wind up with less controlled sound.

the punisher and lab horn are examples of well executed uses of 12" sub drivers however both have their foibles, the lab is inordinatley temprimental as in you need to be carefull with the drivers but they have low power compression and is highly efficient and has verry low fc

the punisher has a much hogher fc is portable and practical however agian needs quite a few cabinets to counteract the high fc which brings cost up as the caire driver is on a par in price to that of a respectable 18" and has similar levels of power compression as its just caires 18" magnet structure strapped to a 12" cone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phildat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 July 2009 at 2:01pm
wasn't it the beslar array principle or Beselar array or something like that? er.... Mykey...step up and help me out here..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sibulus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 July 2009 at 9:43am
Punisher.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Strange Daze Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 July 2009 at 9:15am
big Xmax.....car drivers??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ಠ_ಠ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 July 2009 at 2:22am
yea man 18" bandpass horns were VERY high on my list of potential speakers.  What bothered me about them was the LOWS but i think they could kick like mofos...  From all the speakers ive heard around town from the ones ive made to ones frineds built to expensive turbo sound rigs run by nerdy programmers who have more money than taste in music i have yet to hear something employing 18 incherss or higher and even 15 inchers that didnt have more unpredictable quirks than 12 inchers or lower...   bandpass and big speakers seem so finicky.  also the amp thing i agree with... i do think that i could get a TON of speakers going on one amp if i worked it and had the proper amp.  It all depends on the final design.  i DO know however, that most of the highly used 18" designs by people on forums like this are in the 5-11mm range for xmax.  Imagine a 17-30mm xmax 12 inch speaker horn... the horn part would easily make up for the 85 db/w/m efficiency those things get.  I think this has potential.

How about i start with driver choices.... anything over 16mm xmax pop into mind? i know of like... i think orion car audio and those lab thingies? i dont know...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peter Moller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 July 2009 at 1:31am
While it may be easier to fit a large number of smallish hornloaded cabinets into a vehicle, there are other things that will become an issue - wiring and amplification..

Just for the sake of the argument: If you build 24 12" bins that can produce the same output as 8 larger 18" loaded bins and decide to power with Crown MA5000 amps the difference will be:
18" solution: 1 amp, 2 cables between amp and stacks + 6 short link cables
12" solution: 3 amps, 6 cables between amps and stacks + 18 short link cables..

That said: If you can build a 12" bin that goes as low as a comparable 18" bin, the sound would theoretically be slightly "tighter" - less rumble and more punch and definition, but it depends greatly on the drivers used

I have recently chosen to drop my inventory of double 18 reflex bins and change to single 18 bandpasshorns - main reason being the sound, secondary reason being that they fit better into my logistics.. In my situation, the change only means an additional 4 short speakon cables to link the cabinets and less wasted space in the trailer..

if you do want to look at using smaller drivers, have a look at the Ciare 12.00SW and the Eminence Lab12.. There are already successful freeware designs out there for both drivers..

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ಠ_ಠ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2009 at 10:13pm
Originally posted by tommysb tommysb wrote:

I think the man is right on the money. The practicalities of loads of smaller speakers are far greater IMO, power compression less, power handling per unit volume is more.


who? there were a few guys but none quoted or singled out... I think you were saying 10's and 12s are good? yea!!! i liked what i saw.  I also liked how much less heavy duty the housings needed to be for a lower weight cone moving per unit.  also there are 10s and 12s with 15-30 mm xmaxes they just require 1.5 watts and have efficiencies of 85db/w/m or whatever.... horns are the answer i say.  I also think the size would make an actual trumpety horn shaped horn plastic formed FAR easier.  The initial molds for plastic forming would be difficult love affairs slaving over some plaster of paris and tearing my hair out finding the best gauges and chem comps of plastic and heats and best vaccuum cleaner.... once i got that all worked out (which is annoying but not expensive) i could have hundreds pumped out in a matter of DAYS (worth it).

also im 21 now. Ill fess up to having my logic way out of wack any day.  my emotions tho are just sorta passively insane but stabile.  I was abused on a farm in kentucky for 15 years by the ghosts of an indian cemetary.  GOD BLESS THE BEATLES!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tommysb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2009 at 8:25am
I think the man is right on the money. The practicalities of loads of smaller speakers are far greater IMO, power compression less, power handling per unit volume is more.
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