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Ultra compact mid/high

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toastyghost View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2022 at 11:04pm
If the Volt isn’t available, then you could try your luck for some Faital 8HX230, Beyma 8CX300FE or 6CX200ND/N.

Also excellent drivers used in pro cabs, but stock might be hard to come by - same for lots of stuff right now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RoadRunnersDust Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 April 2022 at 3:26pm
You could also have a look on eBay, etc. for a pair of Impact 55T / TCI52-T

You can find those cheaper than you'll ever build something, they sound pretty good once you take the low end away to feed a sub and they natively mount on a mic stand thread so you don't need a honking great 35mm pole to mount tiny speakers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KWB75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2022 at 8:37pm
Quick update…

The original criteria of ‘ultra compact’ has moved slightly, and I have acquired some drivers…

2 x Faital pro 6FE200. (4ohm)
1 x Monacor DT-300 with WG-300 waveguide 

I’ve started looking at a passive crossover for this, 2nd order Butterworth of 2.5k looks pretty straight forward (along with potential reduction on the tweeter)

Does anyone have any tips on getting the most out of that driver/tweeter combination?

Thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RoadRunnersDust Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2022 at 1:10am
2.5k is a little low to be crossing a soft-dome IMO I would be looking at nearer 3.5k or maybe higher if you do something creative to mate it to the 6”s better
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote citizensc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2022 at 9:02am
Originally posted by KWB75 KWB75 wrote:

Quick update…

The original criteria of ‘ultra compact’ has moved slightly, and I have acquired some drivers…

2 x Faital pro 6FE200. (4ohm)
1 x Monacor DT-300 with WG-300 waveguide 

I’ve started looking at a passive crossover for this, 2nd order Butterworth of 2.5k looks pretty straight forward (along with potential reduction on the tweeter)

Does anyone have any tips on getting the most out of that driver/tweeter combination?

Thanks!


Going with a passive xover on a small speaker like this is a great idea, it will save on amp channels and processing. 

BUT don't just use an off the shelf xover, it will let an otherwise great project down. The main issues are that: 
1. The tweeter and woofer are very unlikely to end up in phase
2. The tweeter and woofer are very unlikely match in gain
3. your off axis response will be awful 
4. you will not be accounting for the frequency response of each driver. 

Don't worry though! designing your own passive xover isn't too hard and if done right can offer great results. 

Step 1. Take measurements using REW, any cheap measurement mic will do, maybe look at the Dayton audio range or the berry ecm 8000. Here is a guide on how to do it https://kimmosaunisto.net/Software/VituixCAD/VituixCAD_Measurement_REW.pdf

Step 2. Import these measurements in to Vituix Cad and fiddle around until you get your desired frequency response and off axis frequency response - there are a billion youtube videos on this

Step 3. Order the parts you came up with in Vituix Cad, solder them together and put the crossover inside your speaker. 

Step 4. $$$

None of this is massively complicated and you will learn heaps on your journey if you choose to go down this path.

Hope this helps!

Ps. don't forget baffle step correction or your speaker will sound a bit 'off' 


Edited by citizensc - 09 May 2022 at 9:03am
https://www.facebook.com/voyager.system

@voyager_soundsystem
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KWB75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2022 at 6:56am
Thanks! Lots to think about…

Quick question - when calculating the crossover, if I’m wiring the two 4ohm woofers in series, do I use nominal impedance of 8 ohms or would I use the RE of 3 ohms to give me a 6 ohm starting point!

Thanks again!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RoadRunnersDust Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2022 at 7:07am
You would wire them in series *and* load them into the box before taking the measurements so the crossover is designed for them as they will be used with all the loading effects, etc. that comes with it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KWB75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2022 at 7:27am
Cheers - to be honest I was hoping to go down the non-measurement route as I don’t own a mic of any sort.

But, would you say it’s an easier process for a first time crossover builder to follow?

My main issue here is time, I’d like to get this finished by the end of the month if possible.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RoadRunnersDust Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2022 at 7:36am
IMO it's a lot easier to use an active XO...

For a passive to do anything helpful beyond stopping your HF getting blown requires measurements and well selected components

That said, you may find "stopping your HF getting blown" is enough for what you want to achieve...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bams Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2022 at 9:34am
The difference between optimized and acceptable is not all that big in non-critical areas of crossing over. measuring is always better but a well calculated  xover using available parameters will propably do the trick for a partyspeaker. did the same thing with zero experience when crossing a 2" to a bullet with quite great results. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote teeth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2022 at 9:37am
yeah, go coaxial. there's a nice set of bishopsound that you could put in a simple wedge style box.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2022 at 10:43am
Originally posted by KWB75 KWB75 wrote:

Cheers - to be honest I was hoping to go down the non-measurement route as I don’t own a mic of any sort.

But, would you say it’s an easier process for a first time crossover builder to follow?

My main issue here is time, I’d like to get this finished by the end of the month if possible.


A passable measurement microphone is £40, and the software to take the measurements is free (REW) as is the best tool for developing crossovers, active or passive (VituixCAD). The latter even has a step by step guide to getting set up, plus preset ‘blocks’ for common filter types and an optimiser that will help you find suitable component values to hit a target acoustic transfer function.

Even if you don’t get a microphone, VituixCAD has a built-in tool for tracing the manufacturer’s published magnitude and impedance plots for each driver. It won’t be right since the box loading dictates a lot of stuff, but it’s better than nowt - especially for a beginner. You can tweak the value of a resistor with your mouse wheel and see the effect on the output in real time, for example.

Originally posted by Bams Bams wrote:

The difference between optimized and acceptable is not all that big in non-critical areas of crossing over. measuring is always better but a well calculated  xover using available parameters will propably do the trick for a partyspeaker. did the same thing with zero experience when crossing a 2" to a bullet with quite great results. 


Hard disagree, especially for newbies to electronics and the maths to derive suitable filters. The textbook electrical filter response is very rarely what you end up with acoustically. Even if the loudspeaker was purely resistive over the operating range.

It’s even worse when you look at the off axis response from poorly summing crossover slopes. Sadly that is where the majority of listeners are for PA speakers.

I think ‘ignorance is bliss’ plays a part here. In 2022 however, with such amazing tools as the above given away for free (much to the chagrin of the developer’s employers) there’s little excuse not to at least make a few ‘digital prototypes’.

If you genuinely don’t have time for even that, then stick to a proven design or premade cabinet.

Edited by toastyghost - 10 May 2022 at 10:47am
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