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Upgrade compression driver?
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csg View Drop Down
Old Croc
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Joined: 17 September 2007
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Points: 6086 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote csg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2022 at 6:33am
You do love a definitive statement don’t you.

I have built several, high end, no compromise custom systems over the years that will use a single (admittedly coaxial) compression driver per side to cover 1000 people with ease. 

Sure, a line array can provide a more scalable system for certain applications but we all managed to provide high quality audio for very large audiences before V-DOSC came along. I was there.
We carry both line array and point source in our inventory. In a great number of applications point source provides superior results. It’s about using the best system design and equipment for the job, not making meaningless definitive statements that show a huge lack of knowledge and appreciation for other peoples circumstances.
“The fact is this is about identifying what we do best and finding more ways of doing less of it better”
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Points: 2574 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote njw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2022 at 8:42am
Originally posted by Line Array Line Array wrote:

i don't believe in unity horns.

point sources are for low output systems.

line arrays for high output systems.

unity horns try to get high output from a point source.

in my experience they are used primarily by amateurs who have been brainwashed on internet forums which ban anybody who criticizes Danley.

if you aren't getting enough clean output from a point source learn the science of line arrays and get / build a line array.

a point source appears to be good for up to about two 15" woofers.  anything over that seems to require more than one compression driver.
   

 I had to quote that before it gets deleted/edited...


Edited by njw - 29 June 2022 at 8:42am
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Points: 83 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Line Array Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2022 at 8:59am
Originally posted by csg csg wrote:

It’s about using the best system design and equipment for the job, not making meaningless definitive statements that show a huge lack of knowledge and appreciation for other peoples circumstances.

point sources like piezo tweeters are cost effective ... this makes them tempting.

it may be the right solution ... or maybe you just want to believe it's the right solution because if it was it would make your life easier.

i do have a psychological inclination for overkill ... i have a "better safe than sorry" mentality ...

i'm just expressing my opinions not telling anybody what to do.  i don't listen to anybody and don't expect anybody to listen to me.
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Points: 814 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FOO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2022 at 9:00am
What about this http://www.bluearan.co.uk/index.php?id=RCFND840
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Points: 10920 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2022 at 9:51am
I think we have a new ’most misinformed user’ on this forum. High accolade for here!

I have personally covered 50,000 people in a 125m x 125m area over multiple years with just four Synergy Horn devices, amongst many other shows across multiple continents.

Perhaps you don’t ‘believe’ in the technology because you don’t understand it? After all, several of your other threads and posts indicate that you might be a bit of an ‘amateur’ yourself.

Originally posted by Line Array Line Array wrote:

i don't listen to anybody and don't expect anybody to listen to me.




You should put this in your signature. It’d save us all a lot of reading and typing.

Every day is a school day.

Edited by toastyghost - 29 June 2022 at 9:53am
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Originally posted by Line Array Line Array wrote:

i don't believe in unity horns.

point sources are for low output systems.

line arrays for high output systems.

unity horns try to get high output from a point source.

in my experience they are used primarily by amateurs who have been brainwashed on internet forums which ban anybody who criticizes Danley.

if you aren't getting enough clean output from a point source learn the science of line arrays and get / build a line array.

a point source appears to be good for up to about two 15" woofers.  anything over that seems to require more than one compression driver.

I have replaced it with a HF146 and it sounds much nicer and cleaner, that comp I had before was just low quality.

Also that rig only has two subs and two kicks so not exactly large enough to recommend I build a line array for it haha.

I think synergy horns sound really nice and have heard large synergy horns at festivals.

Also saying you need more than one compression driver, don't the bigger Danley synergy horns have more than one compression driver in anyway if that is your problem?

edit: added a picture




Edited by immortal - 29 June 2022 at 10:42am
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Points: 4226 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2022 at 11:45am
I was hoping that Kyle would turn up on this thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Phil B View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Line Array Line Array wrote:

i don't believe in unity horns.

point sources are for low output systems.

line arrays for high output systems.

unity horns try to get high output from a point source.

in my experience they are used primarily by amateurs who have been brainwashed on internet forums which ban anybody who criticizes Danley.




Think Toasty has covered most of the ground but I'll just add..... I've heard and worked with most line arrays out there from L'Acoustics, D&B etc and I'll take my own take on Unity horns any day for the small gigs I do. Line arrays have their particular use and excel in some places BUT they are not the holy grail of sound re-inforcement.

Back to you Toasty

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Points: 3120 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snowflake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2022 at 1:59pm
what happened to the Danley Exodus array? doesn't seem to be listed on their website
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Xoc1 View Drop Down
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Points: 397 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Xoc1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2022 at 8:30pm
Having listened to a lot of line arrays in the last week - Which would include top systems from Martin audio - D&B audiotechnik - Void etc I can confirm that they still sound crap in a crosswind.


Edited by Xoc1 - 29 June 2022 at 8:32pm
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Points: 83 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Line Array Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2022 at 8:56pm
perhaps it would have been more accurate to say that unity horn type speakers occupy a certain middle ground between regular boxes and line arrays ...

they provide more output with more directivity control than a regular box ... 

but not as much output or directivity control as a line array ...

unfortunately their SIZE / WEIGHT is on the higher end of the spectrum rather than in the middle ...

i think this is why serious manufacturers seem to have little interest in them ... and conversely why DIYers love them ...

DIYers love gigantic boxes because that's where a DIYer can realize the biggest cost savings versus a commercial box ... 

you're not going to save ANYTHING by DIYing a tiny bluetooth speaker but you will save thousands by DIYing a box that weighs 200 lbs or more.

but then ... what sense does it make to spend thousands to save ~ 50 lbs on amplifiers by switching to Powersoft and then add hundreds of pounds to your speakers ?

JBL about a month ago came out with SRX900 arrays which are plastic box miniature arrays using woofers as small as 6.5" ... now that admittedly may be getting a little silly ... $2,500 for a speaker with two 6.5" woofers is in the same territory as that Powersoft X4 where you pay ( in USA ) ~ $10,000 for an amp with two 40 mm fans.

on other hand a unity horn is a bit like that Crest 10001 ... makes equally little sense but from the other end of the spectrum ...

if your unity horns work for you - great.  if you want to DIY some you should also get a good bang for the buck provided you are able to properly design and build them and you don't need to move them too often.

but generally speaking the range of applications for them is getting squeezed as people are looking for smaller, lighter systems with more output ... the new JBL line array element is about 50 lbs and that's with a built in amplifier.

JBL makes unity-horn type speakers but they're all in the install category because they can't compete with arrays on performance to weight basis, nor are they as configurable / scalable for people who must be able to adapt their system to different venues.

i'm glad the OP was able to resolve his issue and apologize for plugging line arrays instead of trying to help him.
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Old Croc
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Joined: 29 December 2004
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Points: 3120 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snowflake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2022 at 10:48pm
synergy system will outperform a line array that is far bigger in total weight. and the line array system has a minimum weight due to line length far in excess of the smallest synergy configurations. yes there are some huge synergy boxes but they are lighter than the biggest line arrays. you can also do some pretty impressive ground-stacked synergy whereas line array always needs a lot of rigging.
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