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using electronic drums for midi writing.

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Saul View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: using electronic drums for midi writing.
    Posted: 10 November 2009 at 6:19pm
has anybody got much experience on this? 

being a drummer, i hate writing in midi patterns using keyboard and fingers, especially when it gets complex.

Thinking of investing in a v-drum kit partly for the advantages of being able to practice in low noise. 

but also because i often think, "wow writing what i have in my head would be much easier with a midi kit". 

Obviously you can record in audio with an acoustic kit, but i want the flexibility of sounds with midi. 

(I will always keep an acoustic kit dont worry. Tongue)

with the v-drum modules, does it allow for writing several channels at the same time? 




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Sheggy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sheggy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 November 2009 at 7:35pm
Have you ever tried one of the MPC midi controllers? How do you get on with playing the drum parts off a midi keyboard?  I program through an MPC 60 (or sometimes with my 2000XL) but always used to just play it in live through a good weighted keyboard.

But then I'm no drummer

S
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Saul View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 November 2009 at 7:39pm
no no no, im talking about recording, not playing live. i wouldn't dream of playing keyboard drums live!! maybe for triggering reggae style.  

my midi controller has drum pads too, but i dont really like them. 


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Sheggy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sheggy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 November 2009 at 8:01pm
no mate - I don't mean playing them out live - I mean playing in the beat realtime.  But I guess that's what you meant by "keyboard" there was me thinking you meant the mouse and keyboard (!) I get yer now.

I'm trying to convince a drummer friend to get a V Drum set up at his place so he can practice without waking the kids.  In fact, I hope to drag him along to the shop this weekend so he can see what I'm on about. I'll let you know if anything looks good.  

I've never recorded midi in from a kit but I do like using the MPCs - wouldn't write a beat without one. Oh, and I'm sure you can get any number of midi channels from the V-drum setups - most drum modules have good polyphony. I'm a bit old school in that I like to use my own sample banks loaded into the memory rather than presets so I tend to do the sequencing on the MPC and track the audio into the computer.

s

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Disco Stu View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Disco Stu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 November 2009 at 10:17pm
You would plug the MIDI out into the MIDI in of say Logic and it would take each drum separately but usually would display it as a multitimbral MIDI instrument. 

It would just display it like any normal instrument in the Piano Roll editor with each drum as a different note.

If you want to separate them out its easy, you can just select all of one drum and move the MIDI data to another note or track.

If you only want it for that I would get something like a DTXpress which is very playable for a cheap electric set, I have a TD8 myself with a 12" snare pad but thats luxury, I would steer clear of the budget kits - use the DTXpress as the bare minimum. Try the rubber pads, I think you will be surprised at how reasonably they play.

Stu


Edited by Disco Stu - 10 November 2009 at 10:21pm
All you need to know is:
Sensitivity + Power Handling - Power Compression = Max Output

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Saul View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 November 2009 at 10:24pm
if i bought one it'd be strictly mesh heads, because i want to be able to practice properly on it, and with the higher spec ones they sound pretty good/acceptable on stage too. i've got about £1000 budget. 

yes i'd use with logic. as i expected, it just splits it across piano roll. - thats fine. 

to ebay i go

p.s. anymore feedback on this would be appreciated. 
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Disco Stu View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Disco Stu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 November 2009 at 10:46pm
Neither really gives you a proper experience, playing real drums requires so much more energy, the rebound on both is too practice pad-like. But at least it will teach you to use the natural rebound of the head. See Jojo Mayers Secret Weapons for the Modern Drummer DVD for a great hand resource tool.

The mesh heads are a little quieter but remember if you want to practice late at night that the cymbals are still rubber so will make a noise so I dont see much improvement over the rubber pads really. The benefit is having the rims on the roland mesh kits, so thats a perk. 

The TD20 module is much improved over the smaller kits, but if you are running through Logic you can just use Drumkit from Hell so the module is largely irrelevant.

Stu
All you need to know is:
Sensitivity + Power Handling - Power Compression = Max Output

My acts:
www.myspace.com/thebowiexperience
www.myspace.com/scheisseelektronisches
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Saul View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 November 2009 at 10:50pm
yes i agree that it'lll never be the same as the real thing, but for my intended use, practice and producing, it'd be more than adequate.

thanks for your comments
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wires Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 November 2009 at 11:52pm
Get native instruments battery, use the drum brain to control the triggering of patterns via midi and the whole experience of playing drums will change. The options are incredible, plus it will run within your sequencer/audio setup.
For a cheap and cheerful option look at the Alesis kit, obviously not the same as a real kit or the much higher priced electronic drums but it gets the job done nicely.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Timebomb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 November 2009 at 12:59am
I use aDDrum 4 with mesh heads, works a treat, you can just set a click track going on logic / cubase and drum away, then come back to the midi youve recorded and chop out loops and fills, its far far better way of getting ideas down than playing things in on a keyboard.  Better than audio to as you can go in and edit / quantise.

Yeah as Stu said you just record MIDI notes like with a keyboard, The DDrum has 8 different notes for each drum, you get a different midi note depending on where you hit the head, dosent work with the mesh heads unfortunatly, you only get 1 note, not sure how this works on v drums.  

If you dont want to spend tons the thomann cheepo mesh head kits are quite good, there modules arnt great but you can get a software package like ez dummer or BFD.

Ive got tons of dnb kits in my sampler, mainly choped up breaks, velocity crossfade on the ghost snares,  hours of fun.

TBH i only really usethe electric kit for playing with different sounds thease days, i recon if you want a drum kit that sounds like a accoustic kit, get an accoustic kit.  The DDrum really taught me to apprecate the sututies of playing an accoustic kit, you just dont get the dynamics, or anything like with an electric kit, but it keeps the neabours happy.
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Saul View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 November 2009 at 8:10am
thanks timebomb, / wires

yes i have an acoustic kit, i have done since i was 11 years old. 

i realize it wont be the same, but i think the advantages, when it comes to electronic production would be incredibly useful to me. i will always keep an acoustic kit, but maybe not set-up all the time.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hond Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 November 2009 at 2:32pm
yeah it's possible. Just buy some drum pads and a midi interface and you're all set. I also had this idea once of taking an acoustic drum kit, mic the snare, kick, .. connect them via audiointerface into logic, into fruityloops. then send those signals to different mixer channels, and add a peak controller (logic will have something like that too but i don't know that yet). The peak controller will register the signal when you hit the drum (you gotta put something on the drums so they won't sound like they normally sound) but it won't play the actualy sound of the drumstick hitting the drum. You link the peak controllers to some drumsamples, so it triggers those samples when you hit your drum. I haven't tried that out yet but i think it should work well :)
this way you wouldn't have to buy a whole new electronic drumkit.
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