Using Plug-ins with live instruments!

Is there any DAW/soundcard software or anything computer based that can process an incoming say live Trumpet thru a mic into a VST like plug- in and back out with Zero Latency???

Must be something out there that can get close tried Logic which can but latency is bad and cubase which can't...

any movers?

Using a MOTU 828 with a PC and sometimes a Mac laptop, doing a search for ASIO4all now, has anyone used Digital performer???

motu should have asio drivers already - asio4all was just in case you were using a built in soundcard.

The host program should make very little difference.. most of them have options to alter the latency somewhere, find that and play with the options..

you will find some vsts slower than others...

oh aye, LDN every other week! Nah not really. Look up Plogue Bidule ont tinternet. I have used the Apple Audio Unit plugins not VST's, as they are more efficient and can be used with smaller buffers (on the whole!) all modern mac systems ship with a basic suite of these plugins, including a constant Q GEQ with +- 20dB sliders, a 0dbFS peak limiter, a four way multiband comp, a basic full range comp/gate, and a very nice reverb.

No fancy GUI's on them or proper translation of digital params into familiar real world controls - eg the multi comp has sliders for Headroom rather than a ratio control, the reverb runs two engines simultaneously and you control the mix and various modulators but there's no Length or HF Ratio sliders. But basically the reverb presets sound great, the GEQ works great on live monitors provided you leave plenty of headroom, the comp and gates work fine for live sources though the controls take some getting used to, can't beat em for free!

Its just all about gain structure when you're running a live mic into an A/D - as long as there's never any clipping and the latency is less than 5ms it's just the same as using hardware.

Studio45 - Repairs & Building Commotion Soundsystem -Mobile PA

Get an RME Hammerfall HD9652 card.

PCI based system, can be worked up to 3ms latency.

Was awesome when I used a PC, but now use a Mac with an M Audio FW1814 just as good, cant hear any latency issues.

Mainstage (the program that comes with Logic) is probably the best bet for live, it was built for doing this stuff, look at the Youtube video of Trent Reznor from NIN about using Mainstage for live!

Stu

All you need to know is:
Sensitivity + Power Handling - Power Compression = Max Output

My acts:
www.myspace.com/thebowiexperience
www.myspace.com/scheisseelektronisches

Author	Message Topic Search Topic Options Post Reply Create New Topic Printable Version Translate Topic
lorenzo14 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Registered User Joined: 03 January 2009 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 131	Post Options Post Reply Quote lorenzo14 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Using Plug-ins with live instruments! Posted: 26 March 2009 at 12:42am
	Is there any DAW/soundcard software or anything computer based that can process an incoming say live Trumpet thru a mic into a VST like plug- in and back out with Zero Latency??? Must be something out there that can get close tried Logic which can but latency is bad and cubase which can't... any movers?

bwilbee Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Registered User Joined: 29 October 2007 Location: Isle of Wight Status: Offline Points: 318	Post Options Post Reply Quote bwilbee Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 26 March 2009 at 2:47pm
	Not with zero latency but some come pretty close, what soundcard + drivers you using? try installing asio4all and see if that helps with latency issues.....

lorenzo14 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Registered User Joined: 03 January 2009 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 131	Post Options Post Reply Quote lorenzo14 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 26 March 2009 at 4:30pm
	Using a MOTU 828 with a PC and sometimes a Mac laptop, doing a search for ASIO4all now, has anyone used Digital performer???

studio45 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 16 October 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3864	Post Options Post Reply Quote studio45 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 26 March 2009 at 6:40pm
	my mac sometimes has a clocking issue that causes ~500msec latency even if internal buffer size is set to 64 samp at 48k, resetting buffer size or changing clock source from external to mac and back again usually sorts it out. i use an edirol FA101 and Logic for just this purpose, although i feel safer using "Plogue Bidule" as it hasn't got as much complicated sh*t going on as logic. but it won't recognise internal soundcard inputs!
	Studio45 - Repairs & Building Commotion Soundsystem -Mobile PA

bwilbee Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Registered User Joined: 29 October 2007 Location: Isle of Wight Status: Offline Points: 318	Post Options Post Reply Quote bwilbee Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 26 March 2009 at 6:42pm
	motu should have asio drivers already - asio4all was just in case you were using a built in soundcard. The host program should make very little difference.. most of them have options to alter the latency somewhere, find that and play with the options.. you will find some vsts slower than others...

lorenzo14 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Registered User Joined: 03 January 2009 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 131	Post Options Post Reply Quote lorenzo14 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 26 March 2009 at 8:47pm
	Thanx peeps for reply some interesting stuff... @studio - so you do this processing of live signals. would be interested to hear more info or see in action any gigs in London??

studio45 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 16 October 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3864	Post Options Post Reply Quote studio45 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 27 March 2009 at 8:12pm
	oh aye, LDN every other week! Nah not really. Look up Plogue Bidule ont tinternet. I have used the Apple Audio Unit plugins not VST's, as they are more efficient and can be used with smaller buffers (on the whole!) all modern mac systems ship with a basic suite of these plugins, including a constant Q GEQ with +- 20dB sliders, a 0dbFS peak limiter, a four way multiband comp, a basic full range comp/gate, and a very nice reverb. No fancy GUI's on them or proper translation of digital params into familiar real world controls - eg the multi comp has sliders for Headroom rather than a ratio control, the reverb runs two engines simultaneously and you control the mix and various modulators but there's no Length or HF Ratio sliders. But basically the reverb presets sound great, the GEQ works great on live monitors provided you leave plenty of headroom, the comp and gates work fine for live sources though the controls take some getting used to, can't beat em for free! Its just all about gain structure when you're running a live mic into an A/D - as long as there's never any clipping and the latency is less than 5ms it's just the same as using hardware.
	Studio45 - Repairs & Building Commotion Soundsystem -Mobile PA

asaa00 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Registered User Joined: 28 January 2008 Location: Los Angeles Status: Offline Points: 358	Post Options Post Reply Quote asaa00 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19 April 2009 at 1:43pm
	i run a 2ms delay on my pc all day via ASIO Edited by asaa00 - 19 April 2009 at 1:43pm

Disco Stu Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 03 March 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 2487	Post Options Post Reply Quote Disco Stu Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19 April 2009 at 10:58pm
	Get an RME Hammerfall HD9652 card. PCI based system, can be worked up to 3ms latency. Was awesome when I used a PC, but now use a Mac with an M Audio FW1814 just as good, cant hear any latency issues. Mainstage (the program that comes with Logic) is probably the best bet for live, it was built for doing this stuff, look at the Youtube video of Trent Reznor from NIN about using Mainstage for live! Stu
	All you need to know is: Sensitivity + Power Handling - Power Compression = Max Output My acts: www.myspace.com/thebowiexperience www.myspace.com/scheisseelektronisches

MikeHunt79 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Registered User Joined: 12 February 2009 Location: Bristol, UK Status: Offline Points: 352	Post Options Post Reply Quote MikeHunt79 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 20 April 2009 at 1:05pm
	Anything less than 10ms is fine, you'll find a lot of old hardware synths are around 10ms...
	I'm English, and as such I crave disappointment. I actively seek it out.